Today's Articles


Question:

Hello all, We are staying in Aus (Sydney) for three weeks in Feb and would like to have a week up the coast near to the GBR. Can anyone suggest somewhere which they think is particularly good for a short stay ? We will probably only have this one shot at it so we want to get it right ! All suggestions, ( assuming that they are reasonable !), will be considered. Thanks, Peter

Response:

Airlie Beach is a good place to stay.  Close to the Whitsundays which is very pretty.  Lots of things to do.  Have a look at http://www.queenslandholidays.com.au/whitsundays/airlie_beach.cfm http://www.holidaynq.com.au/Whitsundays/Whitsundays/whitsundays.html Julie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello all, > We are staying in Aus (Sydney) for three weeks in Feb and would like to > have > a week up the coast near to the GBR. Can anyone suggest somewhere which > they > think is particularly good for a short stay ? We will probably only have > this one shot at it so we want to get it right ! > All suggestions, ( assuming that they are reasonable !), will be > considered. > Thanks, > Peter

Response:

Peter, that is a bit like saying "We’ll be visiting Miami for 3 weeks and we’d like to see the Statue of Liberty while we are there". Sydney to Queensland is 900 kms and the southern most tip of the GBR is a further 500 kms north from there. I am afraid you will need to decide – do I want to see just another major city (Sydney) or do I want to wee the GBR? Yes.  You can fly or drive to Brisbane and Yes.  You can fly or drive to a city or town where you can get to the GBR. Where is the best place?  Sorry.  I can’t answer that.  There are a number of places from Bundaberg northward stretching right up to Cairns and Port Douglas.  That is a coast line stretching about 1200 kms or more and much of which is uninhabited. Try a Google search for GBR cruises using www.google.com.au and select "pages from Australia" only. Ross

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello all, > We are staying in Aus (Sydney) for three weeks in Feb and would like to > have > a week up the coast near to the GBR. Can anyone suggest somewhere which > they > think is particularly good for a short stay ? We will probably only have > this one shot at it so we want to get it right ! > All suggestions, ( assuming that they are reasonable !), will be > considered. > Thanks, > Peter

Response:

Hi.. You could probably spend a few days in Sydney and get a flight to Cairns (about $196 AUD).  From there I would get an airport shuttle/bus from Cairns airport to a hotel in Port Douglas (about 40 minutes) rather than staying in Cairns.  I love Port Douglas and I have stayed at the Radisson Treetops Resort which is fantastic – but it is not in the budget catergory, so I guess it depends on how much you are willing to spend.  You could go all-out and stay in Palm Cove which is a beautiful area but very expensive. I would also suggest checking out Queensland holiday websites (http://www.sunloverholidays.com/slvhtml/index.asp) and maybe even Lonely Planet (www.lonelyplanet.com).  The Thorn Tree forums at the Lonely Planet website have some great information about the best places to see the GBR (beginning, middle or end) and tips on where to stay. And if all this fails, when you get to Sydney go to a travel agent, get some brochures and book it that way. Happy Travels! Jassy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello all, > We are staying in Aus (Sydney) for three weeks in Feb and would like to have > a week up the coast near to the GBR. Can anyone suggest somewhere which they > think is particularly good for a short stay ? We will probably only have > this one shot at it so we want to get it right ! > All suggestions, ( assuming that they are reasonable !), will be considered. > Thanks, > Peter

Response:

Jassy, Thank you so much. That’s plenty to be thinking about. The picture is getting clearer already ! Peter

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi.. > You could probably spend a few days in Sydney and get a flight to Cairns > (about $196 AUD).  From there I would get an airport shuttle/bus from Cairns > airport to a hotel in Port Douglas (about 40 minutes) rather than staying in > Cairns.  I love Port Douglas and I have stayed at the Radisson Treetops > Resort which is fantastic – but it is not in the budget catergory, so I > guess it depends on how much you are willing to spend.  You could go all-out > and stay in Palm Cove which is a beautiful area but very expensive. > I would also suggest checking out Queensland holiday websites > (http://www.sunloverholidays.com/slvhtml/index.asp) and maybe even Lonely > Planet (www.lonelyplanet.com).  The Thorn Tree forums at the Lonely Planet > website have some great information about the best places to see the GBR > (beginning, middle or end) and tips on where to stay. > And if all this fails, when you get to Sydney go to a travel agent, get some > brochures and book it that way. > Happy Travels! > Jassy > Hello all, > We are staying in Aus (Sydney) for three weeks in Feb and would like to > have > a week up the coast near to the GBR. Can anyone suggest somewhere which > they > think is particularly good for a short stay ? We will probably only have > this one shot at it so we want to get it right ! > All suggestions, ( assuming that they are reasonable !), will be > considered. > Thanks, > Peter

Response:

Look for something you’d like at htt://travel.webhosting-list.com and http://journey.webhosting-list.com There are good suggestions for anywhere.

Response:

> Hello all, > We are staying in Aus (Sydney) for three weeks in Feb and would like > to have > a week up the coast near to the GBR. Can anyone suggest somewhere > which they > think is particularly good for a short stay ? We will probably only > have > this one shot at it so we want to get it right ! > All suggestions, ( assuming that they are reasonable !), will be > considered. > Thanks, > Peter

I always head for the YHA. Great value, plus local experience and advice from managers and fellow travellers. check out http://www.yha.com.au/hostels/search/region.cfm?regionid=21 My favourite Oz YHA are Coffs Harbour and in sydney  - Glebe – city hostel is functional but boring. happy holiday Cherokee — Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

Question:

Flying Cathay Pacific via Hong Kong to Brisbane from Vancouver.  On our return (early December 2004) we will have to overnight in Hong Kong.  I had posted a while ago on this but can’t find the thread. Does anyone have any recommendations – based on first hand experience – as to a decent, reasonably priced hotel in Hong Kong?  We arrive at 8:00 PM and depart about 3:00 PM next day

Response:

cathay has packages! Whebn we fly to brisbane we always stay at the airport hotel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Flying Cathay Pacific via Hong Kong to Brisbane from Vancouver.  On > our return (early December 2004) we will have to overnight in Hong > Kong.  I had posted a while ago on this but can’t find the thread. > Does anyone have any recommendations – based on first hand experience > – as to a decent, reasonably priced hotel in Hong Kong?  We arrive at > 8:00 PM and depart about 3:00 PM next day

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >cathay has packages! >Whebn we fly to brisbane we always stay at the airport hotel > Flying Cathay Pacific via Hong Kong to Brisbane from Vancouver.  On > our return (early December 2004) we will have to overnight in Hong > Kong.  I had posted a while ago on this but can’t find the thread. > Does anyone have any recommendations – based on first hand experience > – as to a decent, reasonably priced hotel in Hong Kong?  We arrive at > 8:00 PM and depart about 3:00 PM next day

What do you consider decent?  What price range and quality for example?  There are tons of places there for all tastes and price ranges.

Response:

Have a look at: http://www.res99.com/nexres/search/power_results.cgi?src=10009812&cit… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Flying Cathay Pacific via Hong Kong to Brisbane from Vancouver.  On > our return (early December 2004) we will have to overnight in Hong > Kong.  I had posted a while ago on this but can’t find the thread. > Does anyone have any recommendations – based on first hand experience > – as to a decent, reasonably priced hotel in Hong Kong?  We arrive at > 8:00 PM and depart about 3:00 PM next day

Response:

Hi jbk – I was thinking of something in the $100 – $150 CAD range . We checked out the Regal on the web and the best rate is 1500.00 HK dollars – which is about $250 CAD – and a little pricey for me. Someone mentioned that Cathay has packages – but can’t find it on their website.  How does one access the packages with Cathay?  I booked online and they didn’t offer any packages. Thanks in advance for all your advice! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->cathay has packages! >Whebn we fly to brisbane we always stay at the airport hotel >> Flying Cathay Pacific via Hong Kong to Brisbane from Vancouver.  On >> our return (early December 2004) we will have to overnight in Hong >> Kong.  I had posted a while ago on this but can’t find the thread. >> Does anyone have any recommendations – based on first hand experience >> – as to a decent, reasonably priced hotel in Hong Kong?  We arrive at >> 8:00 PM and depart about 3:00 PM next day > What do you consider decent?  What price range and quality for > example?  There are tons of places there for all tastes and price > ranges.

Response:

>Hi jbk – I was thinking of something in the $100 – $150 CAD range . >We checked out the Regal on the web and the best rate is 1500.00 HK >dollars – which is about $250 CAD – and a little pricey for me. >Someone mentioned that Cathay has packages – but can’t find it on >their website.  How does one access the packages with Cathay?  I >booked online and they didn’t offer any packages. >Thanks in advance for all your advice!

Can you access www.priceline.com from Canada? If not, try joining the Singapore version at http://www.priceline.com.sg/eng/default.asp . They can sometimes have fantastic prices if you use them correctly. Cheers, Alan —

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi jbk – I was thinking of something in the $100 – $150 CAD range . >We checked out the Regal on the web and the best rate is 1500.00 HK >dollars – which is about $250 CAD – and a little pricey for me. >Someone mentioned that Cathay has packages – but can’t find it on >their website.  How does one access the packages with Cathay?  I >booked online and they didn’t offer any packages. >Thanks in advance for all your advice! >Can you access www.priceline.com from Canada? If not, try joining the >Singapore version at http://www.priceline.com.sg/eng/default.asp . They >can sometimes have fantastic prices if you use them correctly. >Cheers, Alan

If you check Regal Hotels website, they have last minute specials that are considerably below their normal rates–right now at HK650 for the Regal Kowloon which is quite a nice hotel for instance.  You might want to make a backup reservation so you have a reservation and then check the Regal prices just before you go to see what their last minute rates are.  I would try the Evergreen in your price range, which is a small family owned hotel I have stayed at many times which is ok and you can get it on www.asiatravel.com and make a reservation there.

Response:

The YMCA Kowloon, right by the Star Ferry and good free breakfast, usually around 600 HKD.

> Have a look at:

http://www.res99.com/nexres/search/power_results.cgi?src=10009812&cit… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Flying Cathay Pacific via Hong Kong to Brisbane from Vancouver.  On > our return (early December 2004) we will have to overnight in Hong > Kong.  I had posted a while ago on this but can’t find the thread. > Does anyone have any recommendations – based on first hand experience > – as to a decent, reasonably priced hotel in Hong Kong?  We arrive at > 8:00 PM and depart about 3:00 PM next day

Response:

You can get a really nice Hotel for CAD 120 in early Dec See http://b2b.hotelclub.net/enter.asp?id=4566 You can search in CAD or HKD on this site Maybe something like New World Renaissance 5-star at CAD 121 The Eaton or Miramar 4-star at CAD 115 Prudential or Charterhouse 3-star at CAD 90 Robin

> Hi jbk – I was thinking of something in the $100 – $150 CAD range . > We checked out the Regal on the web and the best rate is 1500.00 HK > dollars – which is about $250 CAD – and a little pricey for me. > Someone mentioned that Cathay has packages – but can’t find it on > their website.  How does one access the packages with Cathay?  I > booked online and they didn’t offer any packages. > Thanks in advance for all your advice!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >cathay has packages! > >Whebn we fly to brisbane we always stay at the airport hotel > >> Flying Cathay Pacific via Hong Kong to Brisbane from Vancouver.  On > >> our return (early December 2004) we will have to overnight in Hong > >> Kong.  I had posted a while ago on this but can’t find the thread. > >> Does anyone have any recommendations – based on first hand experience > >> – as to a decent, reasonably priced hotel in Hong Kong?  We arrive at > >> 8:00 PM and depart about 3:00 PM next day > What do you consider decent?  What price range and quality for > example?  There are tons of places there for all tastes and price > ranges.

Response:

I stayed at the Eaton 4* and nicely priced with www.accomline.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Flying Cathay Pacific via Hong Kong to Brisbane from Vancouver.  On > our return (early December 2004) we will have to overnight in Hong > Kong.  I had posted a while ago on this but can’t find the thread. > Does anyone have any recommendations – based on first hand experience > – as to a decent, reasonably priced hotel in Hong Kong?  We arrive at > 8:00 PM and depart about 3:00 PM next day

Response:

Question:

A friend of mine wants to know which cell service to use to get his daughter a cellular phone for her 3 month backpacking tour of Australia. She will arrive in Sydney and be backpack up the east coast. I think the majority of her calls will be to and from her father here in Canada. Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.

Response:

Vodafone does $3 for 10 min on International calls to some countries, not sure about Canada. Tell her to get a prepay and Vodafone will probably be the best bet. Other wise try iSim www.isim.com.au who are also cheap. Don’t bother with an phone on account. If she has her own GSM phone, then she just needs to get a SIM card here. Generally they cost $30 and come with a $30 credit so if she is not happy with the first card she gets, then once the credit is used, she can get another one from another company rather than topping up the one that she has. If coverage in the country is what she wants, then Telstra CDMA pre-pay is what we use. You can buy a Nokia 2280 for $148 with $20 credit here in OZ. Still the most expensive network to use though. For International calls, a calling card is best and calls can be cheap as. eg OZCALL has rates of 0.9c/min from Australia to Canada – plus whatever it costs to make a local call. www.cardcall.com.au . Shops close to any backpacker hostel will have a wide range of calling cards with real cheap rates – it is hard to pick the best one, there are so many to choose from but the Cardcall ones are probably as good as any. SteveS

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A friend of mine wants to know which cell service to use to get his > daughter a cellular phone for her 3 month backpacking tour of > Australia. She will arrive in Sydney and be backpack up the east > coast. > I think the majority of her calls will be to and from her father here > in Canada. > Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.

Response:

> > I think the majority of her calls will be to and from her father here > in Canada. > If she has her own GSM phone, then she just needs to get a SIM card here.

If she has a North American GSM phone, it might not work in Australia (unless it is a tri-band). North American GSM operates in the GSM1900 band, while Australian GSM operates in the GSM900 and GSM1800 bands.

Response:

> A friend of mine wants to know which cell service to use to get his > daughter a cellular phone for her 3 month backpacking tour of > Australia. She will arrive in Sydney and be backpack up the east > coast.

On our last trip we bought a Telstra prepaid card. I got regestired after a (toll free) 5 minute call to Telstra’s hotline and could use it perfectly for calling home (Germany). And we had access at even remote places (little villages along the coast). The 25$ for a prepaid card are a wise investment. It’s just better to know that you can call roadservice, make bookings at restaurants, inform your hotel about late arrival … My German Vodafone GSM-Card would work, but roaming is reather expensive (also, if you receive calls!). It’s still interesting to bring your German Vodafone Card, as you can send (and receive) shortmessages back home for free! Don’t know about rates for Canadian Vodafo Cards though. I also would check for the GSM-type you’re using at home (and consider buying a triband) as Gordon said. We will definetly try to get a new prepaid card from Telstra on our next tour to Australia in October. Have a look at <communicate.com.au>. Bego — "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.   They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country   and our people, and neither do we."                                    - George W. Bush, 5.8.2004

Response:

Telstra has the best coverage – used in conjunction with a callback service (Remember in Australia you do NOT pay for incoming mobile calls – unlike Canada!). There are several callback providers – and they are CHEAP!!!! We used: http://www.callbackworld.com/ Have Fun!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->A friend of mine wants to know which cell service to use to get his > daughter a cellular phone for her 3 month backpacking tour of > Australia. She will arrive in Sydney and be backpack up the east > coast. > I think the majority of her calls will be to and from her father here > in Canada. > Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.

Response:

> A friend of mine wants to know which cell service to use to get his > daughter a cellular phone for her 3 month backpacking tour of > Australia. She will arrive in Sydney and be backpack up the east > coast. > I think the majority of her calls will be to and from her father here > in Canada. > Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.

  Adding to the other responses:   Also realize that outside major cities/towns, one generally will have *no* coverage, so mobile phones will not work at all!   What we used as an alternative is a *normal* Telstra phone card, i.e. (mainly) for use with a normal phone. They have free-of-charge call-in numbers and you can enable voicemail on the card. That way people can leave a message for you (you will have to give them your voicemail box number and (Oz) call-in number. When you call the free call-in number, you will be notified if there are any messages for you. You can easily add money to these cards (also by credit card). You can transfer the balance and voicemail box of one card to another, and if you look carefully you can have a card with a long expiration time (my current one was bought in October 2002 and expires in December 2004). You can use their cards from/in most countries, often with free-of-charge call-in numbers. So for example, I can call free-of-charge from The Netherlands to check my balance. Telstra is by no means the cheapest (in per-minute rates) card, but is very convenient for occasional use.  If you want to call frequently, then *also* buy a cheap but less flexible card, for example the "Super Saver" cards from Coles supermarkets (AUD$ 30 for *500* minutes to most countries in Europe and North America).

Response:

Is the information about cell access still applicable for more remote regions: like bicycling the Stuart Hwy (between Adelaide-Darwin) or the "Savannah Way" between Roper Bar (NT) or Mattaranka and Cairns? Ken Canada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > A friend of mine wants to know which cell service to use to get his > daughter a cellular phone for her 3 month backpacking tour of > Australia. She will arrive in Sydney and be backpack up the east > coast. > I think the majority of her calls will be to and from her father here > in Canada. > Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.

Response:

> Is the information about cell access still applicable for more remote > regions: like bicycling the Stuart Hwy (between Adelaide-Darwin) or the > "Savannah Way" between Roper Bar (NT) or Mattaranka and Cairns? > Ken > Canada

  Yup, no coverage outside major cities/towns. For details, see for example <http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile/networks/coverage/maps.cfm>. These maps are very/’too’ detailed, but you can zoom out. IIRC, there used to be less detailed maps, but I can not find them at the moment.   You should probably carry a satelite safety beacon (EPIRB) for emergencies. It can give a one way signal (not message), including your (GPS) location, to the emergency services. Misuse is obviously heavily fined. You can rent or buy these devices.

Response:

Telstra has the best coverage hands down of all the "networks", some of the try-hards only cover metro areas. Rates are competitive, so the choice is real easy. As others have said, if you’re mainly in rural areas, CDMA coverage is worth considering, but obviously needs a separate phone. I’m not sure if there’s any CDMA/GSM handsets out there.

> A friend of mine wants to know which cell service to use to get his > daughter a cellular phone for her 3 month backpacking tour of > Australia. She will arrive in Sydney and be backpack up the east > coast. > I think the majority of her calls will be to and from her father here > in Canada. > Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Question:

>>I love the fact that you can fly anywhere from London Heathrow, >Actually there are a surprising number of places that you can’t fly to >from Heathrow but you can from Frankfurt or Amsterdam!

Adopting Roland’s hair splitting, you can in fact fly to anywhere in the world from Heathrow, some destinations require a connection and are not non-stop. Applies to any other airport as well of course. –   Lansbury www.uk-air.net FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

Response:

remarked: >Isn’t DFW severed by AA from LHR?? >Sorry, my mistake. They do seem to have one direct flight, but very >booked up (ie doesn’t show up very often on booking sites).

Later… I’ve been tricked by their booking site which claims flight 67 is direct. In fact it has a long stopover (and plane change) at ORD! So DFW is severed (sic) from LHR. — Roland Perry

Response:

>>    No.  Under Bermuda II, no airline can fly between DFW and LHR. >Yo’ur right.. its LGW.  Whats Bermuda II anyway??

  That’s the treaty (from 1977?) that currently governs UK-US route   rights.  It’s very complicated.  First of all, there is the restriction   that no more than two US and two UK airlines may fly between the UK and   US (I don’t know if fifth-freedom carriers like Air India and Air New   Zealand are explicitly mentioned in the treaty).  Then there is a list   of destinations that may be served by US airlines from London, and a   (different) list of destinations that may be served by UK airlines.   Then there is a shorter list of destinations that may be served from LHR   (BOS, NYC, PHL, BWI, WAS, MIA, DTW, ORD, LAX, SFO, SEA and a couple of   others – maybe ANC and MSP, with some weird restrictions, like MSP can   only be served by a US airline).  The lists mutated over the years:   I think LAS and PIT were later additions.  In any case, there are no   airports in Texas that can be served from LHR under Bermuda II.

Response:

>Isn’t DFW severed by AA from LHR??

Sorry, my mistake. They do seem to have one direct flight, but very booked up (ie doesn’t show up very often on booking sites). Otherwise they recommend going via Chicago. — Roland Perry

Response:

>Isn’t DFW severed by AA from LHR??

   No.  Under Bermuda II, no airline can fly between DFW and LHR.

Response:

> >Isn’t DFW severed by AA from LHR?? >    No.  Under Bermuda II, no airline can fly between DFW and LHR.

Yo’ur right.. its LGW.  Whats Bermuda II anyway??

Response:

>I love the fact that you can fly anywhere from London Heathrow,

Actually there are a surprising number of places that you can’t fly to from Heathrow but you can from Frankfurt or Amsterdam! >but >that doesn’t change the fact that it is a poorly laid-out airport. >Having recently changed planes in Amsterdam Schiphol, I think I now >know which is my favourite European hub.  

Glad you had a good tranfer at AMS, if it ever crops up try Copenhagen, just as pleasant, on a slightly smaller scale. >(Paris-Charles de Gaulle, >for all of its modern architecture, is not necessarily much better >than Heathrow…boarding busses to change planes is soooooooo >unnecessary.)

The last time I used Heathrow as a transfer point, there was a bus to the 747 on departure, a bus from the 747 on arrival, and of course a bus between terminals! –==++AJC++==–

Response:

>>I love the fact that you can fly anywhere from London Heathrow, >Actually there are a surprising number of places that you can’t fly to >from Heathrow but you can from Frankfurt or Amsterdam!

Or Gatwick, even. — Roland Perry

Response:

> Actually there are a surprising number of places that you can’t fly to > from Heathrow but you can from Frankfurt or Amsterdam!

Places Served by AMS or FRA and not LON. I can think of one off the top of my head, MNL by both KLM and Lufthansa. Any others?

Response:

> Actually there are a surprising number of places that you can’t fly to > from Heathrow but you can from Frankfurt or Amsterdam! > Places Served by AMS or FRA and not LON. I can think of one off the top of > my head, MNL by both KLM and Lufthansa. > Any others?

Lima, Peru.

Response:

>Places Served by AMS or FRA and not LON.

and not LHR >I can think of one off the top of my head, MNL by both KLM and >Lufthansa. Any others?

What about DFW, HOU and ATL? There may be more of that ilk. — Roland Perry

Response:

> >Places Served by AMS or FRA and not LON. > and not LHR >I can think of one off the top of my head, MNL by both KLM and >Lufthansa. Any others? > What about DFW, HOU and ATL? There may be more of that ilk.

Isn’t DFW severed by AA from LHR?? I remember flying to Calgary once via DFW.

Response:

> > > Actually there are a surprising number of places that you can’t fly to > > from Heathrow but you can from Frankfurt or Amsterdam! > Places Served by AMS or FRA and not LON. I can think of one off the top of > my head, MNL by both KLM and Lufthansa. > Any others? > Lima, Peru.

That’s the one I thought of immediately, partly because I’m planning a trip for next year. It’s not _so_ suprising though. Iberian are the only other European airline to fly the route. (Are there any others I’m missing?) I did ask the Peruvian (*)Ambassador to the UK if this was an issue that the Peruvian government would be interested in addressing in some way, and he said yes, but it seemed like a ‘political’ answer.   Anyway, from MAN, you can do it in two non-stop flights, best option seems to be changing at MIA, but the total journey time is quicker with KLM, even though the flight from AMS to LIM stops somewhere. (Iberian is a lot more expensive on all the sites I’ve tried thus far, and the connections from MAN to MAD are a bit iffy.) David (*) He gave a talk at the local Spanish cultural centre- he’s not an acquaintance! — David Horne- www.davidhorne.net usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >>Andrew Williams, who stayed in overnight accommodation on Monday night >after > >>his flight was cancelled, described the scene at Heathrow as "shambolic > >>chaos". > > So business as usual at BAA’s airports :-) > > –==++AJC++==– > Why pick on BAA?  Edinburgh, my local BAA airportm may be busy but > I’ve never seen it "shambolic".  There have always been check-in staff > when they’ve been needed, in my experience.  Isn’t this more likely to > be a London, or a Heathrow, or a British Airways problem, than a > problem with BAA airports? > — > — Chris.

re positioned top posting… >It’s never been shambolic. Maybe "shambolic, bABy…"

It was most dire last night   News at 10 lead  BA Cancels Flights more distruption today.    ITN News 24  Passengers in distress as problems at BA go on and on.   then  both had the same quotation Management stated that this was due to  ”’Maintainance Problems” (not very reassuring to passengers isnt that statment), and lack of ground staff. It looks like Management at BA once again are crumbling, if they cannot work out what flights they are to operate in late August when they have coped at the highest peak at the last week of July, and how many staff are needed for those flights and full loads, then something is sadly wrong somewhere.

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> As for EDI, it was my local > airport for 5 years, I used it a lot, and it was delightful. Easy to > use, light, airy, view of the planes from the cafe/bar, observation > deck upstairs. When I returned after an absence of a few years I was > appalled at what BAA have done to the place. The public areas are > entirely closed in, the observation deck has gone, from the disgusting > eating area you get a view of the car park, car rental has been moved > just far enough away so that you need to take a shuttle bus (even LGW > doesn’t require that).

…nicely summed up, all issues that I’d noticed too at EDI. However, I wouldn’t say what was on offer at the eating area was ever particularly inviting before. I was expecting deep fried Mars bars there… To their credit, I would say that the airside areas are far more spacious and inviting than before. Cheers, Howard

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> As for EDI, it was my local > airport for 5 years, I used it a lot, and it was delightful. Easy to > use, light, airy, view of the planes from the cafe/bar, observation > deck upstairs. When I returned after an absence of a few years I was > appalled at what BAA have done to the place. The public areas are > entirely closed in, the observation deck has gone, from the disgusting > eating area you get a view of the car park, car rental has been moved > just far enough away so that you need to take a shuttle bus (even LGW > doesn’t require that). >…nicely summed up, all issues that I’d noticed too at EDI. However, I >wouldn’t say what was on offer at the eating area was ever particularly >inviting before. I was expecting deep fried Mars bars there…

I’m sure they were there somewhere:-) I guess it was just the ambiance of the placed that made the whole experience seem more pleasant, the new version just seems to resemble some nightmare ‘foodcourt’ in a downmarket Arndale centre! >To their credit, I would say that the airside areas are far more spacious >and inviting than before.

I suppose that’s true, but it all seemed so passenger-friendly before, especially at the BD, and the BA Shuttle gates. In each case it was through the door, check-in desk right in front of you, escalator right there straight up to security and in to lounge, from there straight down the airbridge on to the plane. >Cheers, Howard

–==++AJC++==–

Response:

I love the fact that you can fly anywhere from London Heathrow, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is a poorly laid-out airport. Having recently changed planes in Amsterdam Schiphol, I think I now know which is my favourite European hub.  (Paris-Charles de Gaulle, for all of its modern architecture, is not necessarily much better than Heathrow…boarding busses to change planes is soooooooo unnecessary.)

Response:

>Flights cancelled by BA shortage >BA passengers face a second day of delays after staff shortages and >technical problems forced the airline to cancel 25 flights at Heathrow. >Twenty-two short-haul flights were cancelled on Monday when BA failed to >open check-in desks due to a lack of staff. Ten were called off on Tuesday.

Hmm, the Early morning (well 9ish) BAXXX out of Schiphol to LHR was cancelled too, did it really get that bad that early? My 11:45 from AMS to LHR was delayed by about 30 minutes due to late arrival (made worse of course because BA don’t seem to have learnt how to get a plane boarded quickly, when will other airlines realise the low-costs do do somethings which aren’t just money saving!) No information, or even an apology for being late, in fact they seemed to make out they were on time… Jim.

Response:

It’s never been shambolic. Maybe "shambolic, bABy…"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Andrew Williams, who stayed in overnight accommodation on Monday night after >>his flight was cancelled, described the scene at Heathrow as "shambolic >>chaos". > So business as usual at BAA’s airports :-) > –==++AJC++==– > Why pick on BAA?  Edinburgh, my local BAA airportm may be busy but > I’ve never seen it "shambolic".  There have always been check-in staff > when they’ve been needed, in my experience.  Isn’t this more likely to > be a London, or a Heathrow, or a British Airways problem, than a > problem with BAA airports? > — > — Chris.

Response:

> Why pick on BAA?  Edinburgh, my local BAA airportm may be busy but > I’ve never seen it "shambolic".  There have always been check-in staff > when they’ve been needed, in my experience.  Isn’t this more likely to > be a London, or a Heathrow, or a British Airways problem, than a > problem with BAA airports?

I fly through EDI about 25 times each year. Check in and security can be a nightmare, believe me, but I agree that it’s still a walk in the park compared to LHR. My worst experience at EDI was when I got caught up in the European MTV awards last February on the morning after. It was most definitely "shambolic"! Imagine all those divas having to line up to check in for their flights at 6am – it was like they couldn’t leave the place fast enough. The usual scenario at the EDI security points pervades – plenty of x-ray screening points, but only enough staff to man 2/3rds of them. Oh, and the usual string of pax who don’t seem to be able to put their cellphones in their carry on, or wait until they get to the x-ray point before considering emptying their pockets. Kind Regards, Howard

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Andrew Williams, who stayed in overnight accommodation on Monday night after >>his flight was cancelled, described the scene at Heathrow as "shambolic >>chaos". > So business as usual at BAA’s airports :-) > –==++AJC++==– >Why pick on BAA?  Edinburgh, my local BAA airportm may be busy but >I’ve never seen it "shambolic".  There have always been check-in staff >when they’ve been needed, in my experience.  Isn’t this more likely to >be a London, or a Heathrow, or a British Airways problem, than a >problem with BAA airports?

This particular problem may have been down to BA, but Heathrow could be described as shambolic chaos whichever airline you fly. Gatwick is little better, some would say worse. As for EDI, it was my local airport for 5 years, I used it a lot, and it was delightful. Easy to use, light, airy, view of the planes from the cafe/bar, observation deck upstairs. When I returned after an absence of a few years I was appalled at what BAA have done to the place. The public areas are entirely closed in, the observation deck has gone, from the disgusting eating area you get a view of the car park, car rental has been moved just far enough away so that you need to take a shuttle bus (even LGW doesn’t require that). –==++AJC++==–

Response:

> When I returned after an absence of a few years I was > appalled at what BAA have done to [EDI]. The public areas are > entirely closed in, the observation deck has gone, from the disgusting > eating area you get a view of the car park, car rental has been moved > just far enough away so that you need to take a shuttle bus (even LGW > doesn’t require that).

Fair enough.  I never buy food or drink at airports, or rent cars for that matter, and whenever I’m there I’m aiming to get on planes rather than watch them, so all this would have passed me by :-) —         — Chris.

Response:

>>Andrew Williams, who stayed in overnight accommodation on Monday night after >his flight was cancelled, described the scene at Heathrow as "shambolic >chaos". > So business as usual at BAA’s airports :-) > –==++AJC++==–

Why pick on BAA?  Edinburgh, my local BAA airportm may be busy but I’ve never seen it "shambolic".  There have always been check-in staff when they’ve been needed, in my experience.  Isn’t this more likely to be a London, or a Heathrow, or a British Airways problem, than a problem with BAA airports? —         — Chris.

Response:

>Andrew Williams, who stayed in overnight accommodation on Monday night after >his flight was cancelled, described the scene at Heathrow as "shambolic >chaos".

So business as usual at BAA’s airports :-) –==++AJC++==–

Response:

Flights cancelled by BA shortage BA passengers face a second day of delays after staff shortages and technical problems forced the airline to cancel 25 flights at Heathrow. Twenty-two short-haul flights were cancelled on Monday when BA failed to open check-in desks due to a lack of staff. Ten were called off on Tuesday. BA, which has just averted one strike, said it is currently recruiting 60 more check-in staff. Customers reported chaotic scenes and some slept at the airport overnight.      I would say it was a shambolic chaos with no-one giving any information out – they just say delayed and cancelled       Andrew Williams Three US-bound flights were the first to be cancelled after technical faults. The disruption worsened BA’s current staff shortages, leading to the cancellation of flights from Heathrow to a number of European airports, as well as arrivals from those destinations. Andrew Williams, who stayed in overnight accommodation on Monday night after his flight was cancelled, described the scene at Heathrow as "shambolic chaos". He told Radio Five Live: "Some people were shunted off to try and book extra tickets to find the ticket office all shut up with no luggage and nowhere to go. "They’ve been asked to phone a ticket hotline and that doesn’t open until 6am." The customer service desk was "six or seven deep" and police had to be called because some passengers were "losing their cool," he added. Overnight accommodation British Airways said it was making arrangements to put the short-haul passengers on alternative flights. Some were accommodated on later flights, some were provided with overnight hotel accommodation and seats on flights on Tuesday, while others simply had to rebook.      This is a time when BA should be making a mint       Simon Calder       Travel editor       The Independent Simon Calder, travel editor of the Independent newspaper, said the situation would "have to get worse before it can get better." The company’s management would try to resolve it by offering "very large inducements" to staff to work overtime, he told BBC Breakfast. "This is a time when BA should be making a mint. "Instead, it’s having to pay a fortune to put people up in hotels and it’s losing customers because the flights which were cancelled yesterday, most of them were due to come back in this morning." ‘Busiest period’ A BA spokeswoman apologised to customers affected by Monday’s disruption. "Due to a number of operational reasons we have cancelled 25 flights and some services have been delayed", she said. "August is the busiest period of the year for British Airways and services at Heathrow are stretched. "We have also had some technical problems with our aircraft and these combined has resulted in the cancellations," she added. However, it was having more trouble arranging alternatives for the long-haul passengers whose flights were cancelled. Ten flights scheduled for Tuesday were also cancelled. Strike averted The three trans-Atlantic flights cancelled were to Chicago, New York and Philadelphia. Passengers flying into the airport on Monday night also had long waits on the tarmac, before being allowed to disembark. At the weekend, the airline struck a pay deal with the union representing check-in staff and baggage handlers, narrowly averting an August Bank Holiday strike. The deal was struck in the early hours of Saturday after days of negotiation. The airline agreed an 8.5% pay increase over three years as well as

Question:

Could anyone tell me if there are any car rental agencies right at the Port of Miami?  Thanx,  Patti

Response:

>Could anyone tell me if there are any car rental agencies right at the >Port of Miami?  Thanx,  Patti

Hi Patti, The only rental agency at the Port of Miami is Avis. Best regards, Ray LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905 http://www.lighthousetravel.com

Response:

Avis is the only car rental agency with an office in the Port of Miami.

Response:

avis has an office right at the piers. also you can pre-register before you embark and once you disemabrk you can be in your car in just a few minutes. they also have a van to take you to the office(about a 1 minute drive).

Response:

In December 2000, at least on the RCI/Explorer of the Seas sailing, Avis did not follow this very attractive procedure–the "hook" that got me to use Avis over my preferred rental car provider in the first place.  Instead, everyone had to assemble in a ship lounge at 7a on disembarkation day and wait in line for the Avis rep to do the paperwork and assign you a car.  It was a zoo.  And believe it or not, she was handwriting contracts–you’d think that at least for those of us who had used Avis to get to the port for embarkation, a computer-generated contract would have been ready & waiting. Maybe this was a one-time foul-up by Avis…if not, I was not impressed.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> avis has an office right at the piers. also you can pre-register before you > embark and once you disemabrk you can be in your car in just a few minutes. > they also have a van to take you to the office(about a 1 minute drive).

Response:

Greetings —         Had a questions about the Port of Miami – I have heard that getting there can be a pain – and as we are flying in the day before and staying in a hotel near the airport, we would like to take a cab to the port. Is this is good option, should we look into a nicer car service – is there a waiting time period once we get to the port, and how early should we plan on getting to the port that we won’t be rushed or stressed in any way? thanks

Response:

The only delay we encountered (12/22) was entering the port.  They have started checking ID’s, but I noticed that the taxis were going right through and private vehicles (like mine) were being stopped.  Inasmuch as we were very early (10:30) we got in, parked and had cabin  keys in hand by 11:30. Arlene <—also had luggage delivered to cabin before 3 PM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Greetings — >         Had a questions about the Port of Miami – I have heard that getting > there can be a pain – and as we are flying in the day before and staying > in a hotel near the airport, we would like to take a cab to the port. Is > this is good option, should we look into a nicer car service – is there > a waiting time period once we get to the port, and how early should we > plan on getting to the port that we won’t be rushed or stressed in any way? > thanks

Response:

>e to take a cab to the port. Is >this is good option

A breeze.  Relax and enjoy.

Response:

Take the cab.  The fare is regulated at something like $18 per cab (NOT per person) from airport to Port of Miami.  If you get to the port at 2:00 or 2:30 you will be fine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Greetings — >         Had a questions about the Port of Miami – I have heard that getting > there can be a pain – and as we are flying in the day before and staying > in a hotel near the airport, we would like to take a cab to the port. Is > this is good option, should we look into a nicer car service – is there > a waiting time period once we get to the port, and how early should we > plan on getting to the port that we won’t be rushed or stressed in any way? > thanks

Response:

We have never had any problems with a cab to / from the port. (and airport) Should run you about $25. It may be a bit more from an airport hotel than from the airport itself since it is not considered a flat rate (If I remember correctly….seemed really stupid at the time) Matt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Greetings — > Had a questions about the Port of Miami – I have heard that getting > there can be a pain – and as we are flying in the day before and staying > in a hotel near the airport, we would like to take a cab to the port. Is > this is good option, should we look into a nicer car service – is there > a waiting time period once we get to the port, and how early should we > plan on getting to the port that we won’t be rushed or stressed in any way? > thanks

Response:

Yep, from the airport to the port is $18 flat rate. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Take the cab.  The fare is regulated at something like $18 per cab (NOT per > person) from airport to Port of Miami.  If you get to the port at 2:00 or 2:30 > you will be fine.

Response:

Greetings —         Had a questions about the Port of Miami – I have heard that getting there can be a pain – and as we are flying in the day before and staying in a hotel near the airport, we would like to take a cab to the port. Is this is good option, should we look into a nicer car service – is there a waiting time period once we get to the port, and how early should we plan on getting to the port that we won’t be rushed or stressed in any way? thanks

Response:

The only delay we encountered (12/22) was entering the port.  They have started checking ID’s, but I noticed that the taxis were going right through and private vehicles (like mine) were being stopped.  Inasmuch as we were very early (10:30) we got in, parked and had cabin  keys in hand by 11:30. Arlene <—also had luggage delivered to cabin before 3 PM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Greetings — >         Had a questions about the Port of Miami – I have heard that getting > there can be a pain – and as we are flying in the day before and staying > in a hotel near the airport, we would like to take a cab to the port. Is > this is good option, should we look into a nicer car service – is there > a waiting time period once we get to the port, and how early should we > plan on getting to the port that we won’t be rushed or stressed in any way? > thanks

Response:

>e to take a cab to the port. Is >this is good option

A breeze.  Relax and enjoy.

Response:

Take the cab.  The fare is regulated at something like $18 per cab (NOT per person) from airport to Port of Miami.  If you get to the port at 2:00 or 2:30 you will be fine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Greetings — >         Had a questions about the Port of Miami – I have heard that getting > there can be a pain – and as we are flying in the day before and staying > in a hotel near the airport, we would like to take a cab to the port. Is > this is good option, should we look into a nicer car service – is there > a waiting time period once we get to the port, and how early should we > plan on getting to the port that we won’t be rushed or stressed in any way? > thanks

Response:

We have never had any problems with a cab to / from the port. (and airport) Should run you about $25. It may be a bit more from an airport hotel than from the airport itself since it is not considered a flat rate (If I remember correctly….seemed really stupid at the time) Matt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Greetings — > Had a questions about the Port of Miami – I have heard that getting > there can be a pain – and as we are flying in the day before and staying > in a hotel near the airport, we would like to take a cab to the port. Is > this is good option, should we look into a nicer car service – is there > a waiting time period once we get to the port, and how early should we > plan on getting to the port that we won’t be rushed or stressed in any way? > thanks

Response:

Yep, from the airport to the port is $18 flat rate. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Take the cab.  The fare is regulated at something like $18 per cab (NOT per > person) from airport to Port of Miami.  If you get to the port at 2:00 or 2:30 > you will be fine.

Response:

Could anyone tell me if there are any car rental agencies right at the Port of Miami?  Thanx,  Patti

Response:

>Could anyone tell me if there are any car rental agencies right at the >Port of Miami?  Thanx,  Patti

Hi Patti, The only rental agency at the Port of Miami is Avis. Best regards, Ray LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905 http://www.lighthousetravel.com

Response:

Avis is the only car rental agency with an office in the Port of Miami.

Response:

avis has an office right at the piers. also you can pre-register before you embark and once you disemabrk you can be in your car in just a few minutes. they also have a van to take you to the office(about a 1 minute drive).

Response:

In December 2000, at least on the RCI/Explorer of the Seas sailing, Avis did not follow this very attractive procedure–the "hook" that got me to use Avis over my preferred rental car provider in the first place.  Instead, everyone had to assemble in a ship lounge at 7a on disembarkation day and wait in line for the Avis rep to do the paperwork and assign you a car.  It was a zoo.  And believe it or not, she was handwriting contracts–you’d think that at least for those of us who had used Avis to get to the port for embarkation, a computer-generated contract would have been ready & waiting. Maybe this was a one-time foul-up by Avis…if not, I was not impressed.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> avis has an office right at the piers. also you can pre-register before you > embark and once you disemabrk you can be in your car in just a few minutes. > they also have a van to take you to the office(about a 1 minute drive).

Response:

Question:

We like to offer a beuatiful holiday on Koh Mak, Trat, Thailand More activities you can do. Beach activities Swimming Fishing Snorkleling trip Scuba Dive Canue, Kayaking Island Trips Bike Cycle Dry Golf etc. For more information please contact Rano : 09-804-2595   O     :  09-041-0406 http://www.kohmak.com

Response:

> We like to offer a beuatiful holiday on Koh Mak, Trat, Thailand > More activities you can do. > Beach activities > Swimming > Fishing > Snorkleling trip > Scuba Dive > Canue, Kayaking > Island Trips > Bike Cycle > Dry Golf

Do you happen to know the guy with the budget hostel in Hong Kong?

Response:

Question:

I am planning on going to Aruba withing a few months and was wondering about where the nightlife is.  I am 26 yo male and single going there with another buddy and looking for some bars with attractive women.  I’ve read that there are some bars in downtown Oranjestad and as always in the casinos.  Are the bars downtown all located within walking distance from each other?  Any suggestions for bars to visit?  I am also trying to find a cheap hotel to stay at, possibly the coconut inn(inland, but cheap).  Are all the beaches easily accesible to the public or do you have to be in that hotel to get there?

Response:

IMO, as a guy a couple of years older, that just got married, you could have picked a bunch of different islands better suited for hooking up.  I go to aruba with my wife frequently and you really don’t see too many singles. You’re only shot may be when the cruise ships come in and the bars get crowded.  Otherwise, enjoy a relaxing trip on a gorgeous island. good luck

Response:

Its not very important that I hook up, just want some eye candy LOL.  What other islands would you suggest.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> IMO, as a guy a couple of years older, that just got married, you could have > picked a bunch of different islands better suited for hooking up.  I go to > aruba with my wife frequently and you really don’t see too many singles. > You’re only shot may be when the cruise ships come in and the bars get crowded. >  Otherwise, enjoy a relaxing trip on a gorgeous island. > good luck

Response:

>Its not very important that I hook up, just want some eye candy LOL.  What >other islands would you suggest.

The most singles I’ve seen on an island have been on Barbados. Generally the greater the population the more singles you will find. Don <donwiss at panix.com>.

Response:

Coconut Inn is quite a way from the beach. I would stay at Quality Apartments $85 per night high season and closer to stores and beach.  The beaches are open to everyone. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am planning on going to Aruba withing a few months and was wondering about > where the nightlife is.  I am 26 yo male and single going there with another > buddy and looking for some bars with attractive women.  I’ve read that there > are some bars in downtown Oranjestad and as always in the casinos.  Are the > bars downtown all located within walking distance from each other?  Any > suggestions for bars to visit?  I am also trying to find a cheap hotel to > stay at, possibly the coconut inn(inland, but cheap).  Are all the beaches > easily accesible to the public or do you have to be in that hotel to get > there?

Response:

Yes, the beaches are open to everyone, but if I were you, I would stay at a place on the beach if you are going in high season.  With all the hotels plus the overbuilding of the timeshares and apartments, I just shudder to think what it would be like to just rent a beach chair or to find an unoccupied umbrella type shelter if you aren’t at least staying right there.  I have heard more than once about people staking out the beach shelters and fights ensuing over this.  There simply are not enough to accommodate everyone, even at low season, let alone high. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Coconut Inn is quite a way from the beach. I would stay at Quality Apartments > $85 per night high season and closer to stores and beach.  The beaches are open > to everyone. >I am planning on going to Aruba withing a few months and was wondering about >where the nightlife is.  I am 26 yo male and single going there with another >buddy and looking for some bars with attractive women.  I’ve read that there >are some bars in downtown Oranjestad and as always in the casinos.  Are the >bars downtown all located within walking distance from each other?  Any >suggestions for bars to visit?  I am also trying to find a cheap hotel to >stay at, possibly the coconut inn(inland, but cheap).  Are all the beaches >easily accesible to the public or do you have to be in that hotel to get >there?

Response:

Back in my hook up days -)….we used to go to the ultimate party hook up place..Cancun, which is filled with eye candy…Bahamas is more couples but we still used to have a great time…there is always south beach, the keys, and of course Viva las Vegas. Nothing beats the afternoon pool at Mandalay bay or Hard Rock where you can see all the show girls tanning their silicone..   Good luck

Response:

Just back..the party busses are a hoot..Tattoo night booze cruise is fun too…Lots to do…enjoy.. JF – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Back in my hook up days -)….we used to go to the ultimate party hook up > place..Cancun, which is filled with eye candy…Bahamas is more couples but we > still used to have a great time…there is always south beach, the keys, and of > course Viva las Vegas. Nothing beats the afternoon pool at Mandalay bay or Hard > Rock where you can see all the show girls tanning their silicone.. >   Good luck

Response:

Question:

>     You ask me who taught us to murder, commit genocides and holocausts, > fill the world with mass-graves and the air with the screams of the > tortured, raped and maimed? Did you not read the Biblical OT account above, > or can’t you understand what you read? > Pastor Frank

we’ve already established that you are a theological retard. the new testament means nada without the old testament. but i’m not going any further into the subject with you since you are a slack-jawed mouth breathing cross-poster.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more > violence. >> If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. >    If Arabs put down their weapons today, then those who were living in > Palestine would all become refugees, as Israel  ethnically cleanses them, > expropriates their land without compensation and builds ‘Jews only’ > settlements on them. >    I guess we all know, that our reward will be an eventual nuclear > Apocalypse. See below > Pastor Frank >    CAUSE OF THE APOCALYPSE: Being proud instead of repentant of the > horrific holocaust of the entire native population of "the promised land", > as well as the continuing colonial brutality against Palestinian natives. >    The below atrocities were committed shortly after the God of the Jews, > YHWH, gave them the 10 commandments, forbidding Jews to covet their > neighbour’s property and kill them to get a hold of it. >    Then we are told, YHWH who is supposed to be "the same yesterday, > today and tomorrow", changed His mind and commanded them to "kill all > that breatheth", to "occupy the land" and "reap where they have not sown", > resulting in the below holocaust. >    Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord > thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing > that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them; the Hittites, and the > Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the > Jebusites > as the Lord thy God has commanded thee." >    Ezekiel 32:5 "I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the > valleys with your carcass. I will drench the land even to the mountains > with > your flowing blood…" >    Ezekiel 9:5 "Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall > not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and > maidens, little children and women…’" >    Deut. 7:1 (KJV)When Yahweh your god has settled you in the land you’re > about to occupy, and driven out many infidels before you…you’re to cut > them down and exterminate them. You’re to make no compromise with > them nor show them any mercy. >    Joshua 10:40 – BBE So Joshua struck all the land, the hill-country, and > the South,  and the lowland, and the slopes, and all their kings: he left > none  remaining, but he utterly destroyed all that breathed, as God, the > God > of Israel, commanded." >     1 Samuel 15:3 – BBE Now go and strike Amalek, and utterly destroy all > that they have,  and don’t spare them; but kill both man and woman, infant > and suckling,  ox and sheep, camel and donkey." >    Isaiah 13:16 – BBE Their infants also will be dashed in pieces before > their eyes.  Their houses will be ransacked, and their wives raped." >    Hosea 13:16 – BBE Samaria will bear her guilt; For she has rebelled > against her God. They will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed > in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open." >    Moses in Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the > little ones, and kill every woman, that hath known man by lying with him. > But all the female children, that have not known man by lying with him, > keep alive for yourself. >    PROPHETIC APOCALYPSE, (The N-U-C-L-E-A-R consequence of the abomination > above and others like it, employing great noise and heat that can melt > elements, scorch people and destroy the "works of man" on a massive scale) >     2Pt:3:10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; > in > the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements > shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are > therein > shall be burned up. >    2Pt:3:12: Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, > wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements > shall > melt with fervent heat? >    Jesus in Matt. 24:16: Then let them which be in Judea flee into the > mountains: >    17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing > out > of his house: >    18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his > clothes. >    19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck > in > those days! >    20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the > sabbath day: >    21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the > beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. >    22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be > saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. >    Jesus in Lk:23:30: Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall > on us; and to the hills, Cover us. >    Rv:16:9: And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name > of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give > him glory. >  YEP YOU GOT IT RIGHT. HEY PASTOR HOW MANY KIDDIES DID YOU DO. DID  YOU GET > PROMOTED FOR IT. TELL US ABOUT THE MURDER YOU COMMIT. WHO TAUGHT YOU THIS, > TO MURDER.

    You ask me who taught us to murder, commit genocides and holocausts, fill the world with mass-graves and the air with the screams of the tortured, raped and maimed? Did you not read the Biblical OT account above, or can’t you understand what you read? Pastor Frank         THE GOLDEN RULE OF CHRIST     Jesus in Matt. 7:12: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them…."     Jesus in Mt:18:7: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!     Jesus in Mt:8:12: Offenders shall be cast out into outer darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth.     Jesus in Mt:7:2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Response:

 Web Sites Dealing with Witchcraft Hysteria in Europe       By Leland K. Meitzler       Executive Editor, Heritage Quest Magazine Long before the unfortunate events in Salem, Massachusetts, thousands of good people were accused of witchcraft and were sent to the stake. The Inquisition was especially hard on folks who might be "different" in some way. Following are a few Web sites where genealogists and historians can get   a.. Witchcraft in Early Modern Europe and America – a Bibliography   b.. Witches   c.. Malleus Maleficarum (1486)   d.. The Witch Persecution at Trier   e.. The Witch Persecution at Bonn   f.. The Witch Persecution at Bamberg   g.. The Witch Persecution at Wurzburg   h.. The Tryal, Condemnation and Execution of Three Witches   i.. A True and Impartial Relation of the Informations against Three Witches   j.. De la Demonomanie des Sorciers (Paris, 1580)   k.. Rye Ergot and Witches   l.. The Pendle Witches   m.. The Burning Times   n.. Why were the Witches Tortured? For a number of in-depth articles on the accused witches of early New England, read Heritage Quest Magazine, September/October 2002. Back to Top More Expert Advice Articles — PETER If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more > violence. > If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. >    If Arabs put down their weapons today, then those who were living in > Palestine would all become refugees, as Israel  ethnically cleanses them, > expropriates their land without compensation and builds ‘Jews only’ > settlements on them. >    I guess we all know, that our reward will be an eventual nuclear > Apocalypse. See below > Pastor Frank >    CAUSE OF THE APOCALYPSE: Being proud instead of repentant of the > horrific holocaust of the entire native population of "the promised land", > as well as the continuing colonial brutality against Palestinian natives. >    The below atrocities were committed shortly after the God of the Jews, > YHWH, gave them the 10 commandments, forbidding Jews to covet their > neighbour’s property and kill them to get a hold of it. >    Then we are told, YHWH who is supposed to be "the same yesterday, > today and tomorrow", changed His mind and commanded them to "kill all > that breatheth", to "occupy the land" and "reap where they have not sown", > resulting in the below holocaust. >    Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord > thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing > that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them; the Hittites, and the > Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the > Jebusites > as the Lord thy God has commanded thee." >    Ezekiel 32:5 "I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the > valleys with your carcass. I will drench the land even to the mountains > with > your flowing blood…" >    Ezekiel 9:5 "Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall > not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and > maidens, little children and women…’" >    Deut. 7:1 (KJV)When Yahweh your god has settled you in the land you’re > about to occupy, and driven out many infidels before you…you’re to cut > them down and exterminate them. You’re to make no compromise with > them nor show them any mercy. >    Joshua 10:40 – BBE So Joshua struck all the land, the hill-country, and > the South,  and the lowland, and the slopes, and all their kings: he left > none  remaining, but he utterly destroyed all that breathed, as God, the > God > of Israel, commanded." >     1 Samuel 15:3 – BBE Now go and strike Amalek, and utterly destroy all > that they have,  and don’t spare them; but kill both man and woman, infant > and suckling,  ox and sheep, camel and donkey." >    Isaiah 13:16 – BBE Their infants also will be dashed in pieces before > their eyes.  Their houses will be ransacked, and their wives raped." >    Hosea 13:16 – BBE Samaria will bear her guilt; For she has rebelled > against her God. They will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed > in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open." >    Moses in Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the > little ones, and kill every woman, that hath known man by lying with him. > But all the female children, that have not known man by lying with him, > keep alive for yourself. >    PROPHETIC APOCALYPSE, (The N-U-C-L-E-A-R consequence of the abomination > above and others like it, employing great noise and heat that can melt > elements, scorch people and destroy the "works of man" on a massive scale) >     2Pt:3:10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; > in > the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements > shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are > therein > shall be burned up. >    2Pt:3:12: Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, > wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements > shall > melt with fervent heat? >    Jesus in Matt. 24:16: Then let them which be in Judea flee into the > mountains: >    17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing > out > of his house: >    18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his > clothes. >    19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck > in > those days! >    20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the > sabbath day: >    21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the > beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. >    22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be > saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. >    Jesus in Lk:23:30: Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall > on us; and to the hills, Cover us. >    Rv:16:9: And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name > of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give > him glory.

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Response:

THANKS — PETER If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : " …Some Teachings of the Talmud > …which don’t actually appear in the Talmud. See > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/ for what the Talmud > /actually/ > says.

Response:

> If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. > If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.

    If Arabs put down their weapons today, then those who were living in Palestine would all become refugees, as Israel  ethnically cleanses them, expropriates their land without compensation and builds ‘Jews only’ settlements on them.     I guess we all know, that our reward will be an eventual nuclear Apocalypse. See below Pastor Frank     CAUSE OF THE APOCALYPSE: Being proud instead of repentant of the horrific holocaust of the entire native population of "the promised land", as well as the continuing colonial brutality against Palestinian natives.     The below atrocities were committed shortly after the God of the Jews, YHWH, gave them the 10 commandments, forbidding Jews to covet their neighbour’s property and kill them to get a hold of it.     Then we are told, YHWH who is supposed to be "the same yesterday, today and tomorrow", changed His mind and commanded them to "kill all that breatheth", to "occupy the land" and "reap where they have not sown", resulting in the below holocaust.     Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them; the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites as the Lord thy God has commanded thee."     Ezekiel 32:5 "I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the valleys with your carcass. I will drench the land even to the mountains with your flowing blood…"     Ezekiel 9:5 "Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women…’"     Deut. 7:1 (KJV)When Yahweh your god has settled you in the land you’re about to occupy, and driven out many infidels before you…you’re to cut them down and exterminate them. You’re to make no compromise with them nor show them any mercy.     Joshua 10:40 – BBE So Joshua struck all the land, the hill-country, and the South,  and the lowland, and the slopes, and all their kings: he left none  remaining, but he utterly destroyed all that breathed, as God, the God of Israel, commanded."      1 Samuel 15:3 – BBE Now go and strike Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have,  and don’t spare them; but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling,  ox and sheep, camel and donkey."     Isaiah 13:16 – BBE Their infants also will be dashed in pieces before their eyes.  Their houses will be ransacked, and their wives raped."     Hosea 13:16 – BBE Samaria will bear her guilt; For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open."     Moses in Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman, that hath known man by lying with him. But all the female children, that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourself.     PROPHETIC APOCALYPSE, (The N-U-C-L-E-A-R consequence of the abomination above and others like it, employing great noise and heat that can melt elements, scorch people and destroy the "works of man" on a massive scale)      2Pt:3:10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.     2Pt:3:12: Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?     Jesus in Matt. 24:16: Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:     17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:     18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.     19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!     20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:     21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.     22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.     Jesus in Lk:23:30: Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.     Rv:16:9: And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

Response:

> Doesn’t seem as violent as the Koran .

in first kings chapter 15(i beleive) god instructs the israelites to destroy the amolek tribe. he tells them to kill every man, woman and child. but the king of the israelites spares the king of the amolek as a sort of war prize and god punishes the jews for this. the point here is that the jews and the christians (including the roman catholic church) have under gone major reforms. the religons are ever evolving. the end of the current catholic scandal, for instance, is far from over. the end result will be, i hope, a church that doesn’t turn a blind eye to clergy abuses. they’re are other possible corrective action that could be taken as well. priest being allowed to marry and have families would put family men in parishes. male parents as priest would be a great watch dog against pedophilic preists. but i digress. christianity and judaism have reformed them selves over several thousand years. islam hasn’t. all islam seems to do is produce off shoots more violent, bigoted and backwards than the last off shoot. they now teach a theology and social mind set that more closely resembles a medieval european mindset. in short muslims need to get thier collective shit in one sock and join the 21st century.

Response:

what are you? illiterate? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Doesn’t seem as violent as the Koran . > " …Some Teachings of the Talmud > Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be > punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell. > Moed Kattan 17a . If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a > city where he is not known and do the evil there. > Non-Jews are Not Human > Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Only Jews are human ("Only ye are designated > men"). Also see Kerithoth 6b under the sub-head, "Oil of Anointing" > and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women are designated animals > ("she-asses"). > Jews are Divine > Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be > killed. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God. > O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews > Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a Gentile ("Cuthean") the wages > owed him for work. > Jews Have Superior Legal Status > Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite > there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an > Israelite…the payment is to be in full." > Jews May Steal from Non-Jews > Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile > ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba > Kamma 113b). > Sanhedrin 76a . God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to > an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost > article to a Cuthean…" > Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews > Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will > be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep. > Baba Kamma 37b. Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God > has "exposed their money to Israel." > Jews May Lie to Non-Jews > Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a > Gentile. > Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human > Yebamoth 98a. All Gentile children are animals. > Abodah Zarah 36b . Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from > birth. > Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows. > Abodah Zarah 67b . "The vessels of Gentiles, do they not impart a > worsened flavor to the food cooked in them?" > Insults Against Blessed Mary > Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus’ mother was a whore: "She who was the > descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with > carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in > the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, > "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men. > Gloats over Christ Dying Young > A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the early age at which Jesus > died: "Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus) was?–He replied: It is > not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody and deceitful men > shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three > or thirty-four years old." > Says Jesus was a Sorcerer > Sanhedrin 43a . Says Jesus ("Yeshu" and in footnote #6, Yeshu "the > Nazarene") was executed because he practiced sorcery. > Horrible Blasphemy of Our Lord > Gittin 57a . Says Jesus ( see footnote #4) is being boiled in "hot > excrement." > Sanhedrin 43a . Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover, > Yeshu was hanged…Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense > could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?" > Attacks Christians and their Books > Rosh Hashanah 17a . Christians ("minim") and others who reject the > Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations (see > footnote #11 for the definition of minim). > Sanhedrin 90a.Those who read the New Testament ("uncanonical books," > see footnote #9) will have no portion in the world to come. > Shabbath 116a (p. 569). Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, > i.e. the New Testament. See footnote #6. > Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New > Testament books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish > History, Jewish Religion, p. 21). > Sick and Insane Teachings > Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within > the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix it with honey and eat it. > Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy > way is given. > Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the > animals in the Garden of Eden. > Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations. > Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, > three years "and a day" old). > Sanhedrin 54b . A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child > is less than nine years old. > Kethuboth 11b . "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little > girl it is nothing." > Yebamoth 59b . A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to > marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also > eligible to marry a Jewish priest. > Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that > Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with. > Hagigah 27a . States that no rabbi can ever go to hell. > Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the > rabbi won the debate. > Gittin 70a . The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor > toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited > long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is > with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic." > Toilet and excrement obsessions are laced throughout Talmud and were > exhibited in Spielberg*s Schindler’s List where the Hollywood director > shows a Jewish child jumping through a toilet seat in an outhouse and > falling into a pool of liquefied excrement. There the child meets two > other Jewish children partially immersed who inform the interloper > that this cesspool is their hiding spot exclusively and that he must > find his own. These are the kind of disgusting and morbid, psychotic > images which Jewish kids are exposed to constantly in the cinematic > liturgy of Holocaustianity and for that matter, in the Talmud as well. > Gittin 69b (p. 329). To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh") a Jew > should >take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, > but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog’s excrement > as it loosens the limbs.< > Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass > between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm > trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or > sitting at a crossroads. > Menahoth 43b-44a . A Jewish man is obligated to say the following > prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman > or a slave. > Shabbath 86a-86b. Because Jews are holy they do not have sex during > the day unless the house can be made dark. A Jewish scholar can have > sex during the day if he uses his garment like a tent to make it dark. > Tall Tales of a Roman Holocaust > Here are two early "Holocaust" tales from the Talmud: Gittin 57b. > Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of > Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped > in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans. (Ancient demography > indicates that there were not 16 million Jews in the entire world at > that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews). > A Revealing Admission > Abodah Zarah 70a . The question was asked of the rabbi whether some > wine stolen in Pumbeditha might be used or if it was defiled, due to > the fact that the thieves might have been Gentiles (a Gentile touching > wine would make the wine unclean). The rabbi says not to worry, that > the wine is permissible for Jewish use because the majority of the > thieves in Pumbeditha, the place where the wine was stolen, are Jews > Pharisaic Rituals > Erubin 21b (p. 150). >>Rabbi Akiba said to him, "Give me some water to > wash my hands." > "It will not suffice for drinking," the other complained, "will it > suffice for washing your hands?" > "What can I do?’ the former replied, "when for neglecting the words of > the Rabbis one deserves death? It is better that I myself should die > than that I transgress against the opinion of my colleagues." [This is > the ritual hand washing condemned by Jesus in Matthew 15: 1-9]. > Great Rabbi Deceives A Woman > Kallah 51a (Soncino Minor Tractates). Teaches that God approves of > rabbis who lie: > "The elders were once sitting in the gate when two young lads passed > by; one covered his head and the other uncovered his head. Of him who > uncovered his head Rabbi Eliezer remarked that he is a bastard. Rabbi > Joshua remarked that he is the son of a niddah (a child conceived > during a woman’s menstrual period). Rabbi Akiba said that he is both a > bastard and a son of a niddah. > "They said, ‘What induced you to contradict the opinion of your > colleagues?’ He replied, "I will prove it concerning him." He went to > the lad’s mother and found her sitting in the market selling beans. > "He said to her, ‘My daughter, if you will answer the question I will > put to you, I will bring you to the world to come.’ (eternal life). > She said to him, ‘Swear it to me.’ Rabbi

… read more »

Response:

Doesn’t seem as violent as the Koran .

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> " …Some Teachings of the Talmud > Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be > punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell. > Moed Kattan 17a . If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a > city where he is not known and do the evil there. > Non-Jews are Not Human > Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Only Jews are human ("Only ye are designated > men"). Also see Kerithoth 6b under the sub-head, "Oil of Anointing" > and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women are designated animals > ("she-asses"). > Jews are Divine > Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be > killed. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God. > O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews > Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a Gentile ("Cuthean") the wages > owed him for work. > Jews Have Superior Legal Status > Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite > there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an > Israelite…the payment is to be in full." > Jews May Steal from Non-Jews > Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile > ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba > Kamma 113b). > Sanhedrin 76a . God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to > an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost > article to a Cuthean…" > Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews > Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will > be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep. > Baba Kamma 37b. Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God > has "exposed their money to Israel." > Jews May Lie to Non-Jews > Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a > Gentile. > Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human > Yebamoth 98a. All Gentile children are animals. > Abodah Zarah 36b . Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from > birth. > Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows. > Abodah Zarah 67b . "The vessels of Gentiles, do they not impart a > worsened flavor to the food cooked in them?" > Insults Against Blessed Mary > Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus’ mother was a whore: "She who was the > descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with > carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in > the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, > "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men. > Gloats over Christ Dying Young > A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the early age at which Jesus > died: "Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus) was?–He replied: It is > not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody and deceitful men > shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three > or thirty-four years old." > Says Jesus was a Sorcerer > Sanhedrin 43a . Says Jesus ("Yeshu" and in footnote #6, Yeshu "the > Nazarene") was executed because he practiced sorcery. > Horrible Blasphemy of Our Lord > Gittin 57a . Says Jesus ( see footnote #4) is being boiled in "hot > excrement." > Sanhedrin 43a . Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover, > Yeshu was hanged…Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense > could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?" > Attacks Christians and their Books > Rosh Hashanah 17a . Christians ("minim") and others who reject the > Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations (see > footnote #11 for the definition of minim). > Sanhedrin 90a.Those who read the New Testament ("uncanonical books," > see footnote #9) will have no portion in the world to come. > Shabbath 116a (p. 569). Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, > i.e. the New Testament. See footnote #6. > Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New > Testament books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish > History, Jewish Religion, p. 21). > Sick and Insane Teachings > Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within > the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix it with honey and eat it. > Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy > way is given. > Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the > animals in the Garden of Eden. > Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations. > Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, > three years "and a day" old). > Sanhedrin 54b . A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child > is less than nine years old. > Kethuboth 11b . "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little > girl it is nothing." > Yebamoth 59b . A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to > marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also > eligible to marry a Jewish priest. > Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that > Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with. > Hagigah 27a . States that no rabbi can ever go to hell. > Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the > rabbi won the debate. > Gittin 70a . The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor > toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited > long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is > with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic." > Toilet and excrement obsessions are laced throughout Talmud and were > exhibited in Spielberg*s Schindler’s List where the Hollywood director > shows a Jewish child jumping through a toilet seat in an outhouse and > falling into a pool of liquefied excrement. There the child meets two > other Jewish children partially immersed who inform the interloper > that this cesspool is their hiding spot exclusively and that he must > find his own. These are the kind of disgusting and morbid, psychotic > images which Jewish kids are exposed to constantly in the cinematic > liturgy of Holocaustianity and for that matter, in the Talmud as well. > Gittin 69b (p. 329). To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh") a Jew > should >take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, > but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog’s excrement > as it loosens the limbs.< > Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass > between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm > trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or > sitting at a crossroads. > Menahoth 43b-44a . A Jewish man is obligated to say the following > prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman > or a slave. > Shabbath 86a-86b. Because Jews are holy they do not have sex during > the day unless the house can be made dark. A Jewish scholar can have > sex during the day if he uses his garment like a tent to make it dark. > Tall Tales of a Roman Holocaust > Here are two early "Holocaust" tales from the Talmud: Gittin 57b. > Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of > Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped > in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans. (Ancient demography > indicates that there were not 16 million Jews in the entire world at > that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews). > A Revealing Admission > Abodah Zarah 70a . The question was asked of the rabbi whether some > wine stolen in Pumbeditha might be used or if it was defiled, due to > the fact that the thieves might have been Gentiles (a Gentile touching > wine would make the wine unclean). The rabbi says not to worry, that > the wine is permissible for Jewish use because the majority of the > thieves in Pumbeditha, the place where the wine was stolen, are Jews > Pharisaic Rituals > Erubin 21b (p. 150). >>Rabbi Akiba said to him, "Give me some water to > wash my hands." > "It will not suffice for drinking," the other complained, "will it > suffice for washing your hands?" > "What can I do?’ the former replied, "when for neglecting the words of > the Rabbis one deserves death? It is better that I myself should die > than that I transgress against the opinion of my colleagues." [This is > the ritual hand washing condemned by Jesus in Matthew 15: 1-9]. > Great Rabbi Deceives A Woman > Kallah 51a (Soncino Minor Tractates). Teaches that God approves of > rabbis who lie: > "The elders were once sitting in the gate when two young lads passed > by; one covered his head and the other uncovered his head. Of him who > uncovered his head Rabbi Eliezer remarked that he is a bastard. Rabbi > Joshua remarked that he is the son of a niddah (a child conceived > during a woman’s menstrual period). Rabbi Akiba said that he is both a > bastard and a son of a niddah. > "They said, ‘What induced you to contradict the opinion of your > colleagues?’ He replied, "I will prove it concerning him." He went to > the lad’s mother and found her sitting in the market selling beans. > "He said to her, ‘My daughter, if you will answer the question I will > put to you, I will bring you to the world to come.’ (eternal life). > She said to him, ‘Swear it to me.’ Rabbi Akiba, taking the oath with > his lips but annulling it in his heart, said to her, ‘What is the > status of your son?’ She replied, ‘When I entered the bridal chamber I > was niddah (menstruating) and my husband kept away from me; but my > best man had intercourse with me and this son was born to me.’ > Consequently the child was both a bastard and the son of a niddah. > It was declared, ‘..Blessed be the God of Israel Who Revealed His > Secret to Rabbi Akiba…" > In addition to the theme that God rewards clever liars the preceding > discussion is actually about Christ (the lad who

… read more »

Response:

neurosis is taken you both over, better emigrate to the "bulwark"s safety!

Response:

Well, it was just a suggestion. :)   neurosis is taken you both over, better emigrate to the "bulwark"s safety!

Response:

" …Some Teachings of the Talmud Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell. Moed Kattan 17a . If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there. Non-Jews are Not Human Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Only Jews are human ("Only ye are designated men"). Also see Kerithoth 6b under the sub-head, "Oil of Anointing" and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women are designated animals ("she-asses"). Jews are Divine Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God. O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a Gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work. Jews Have Superior Legal Status Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite…the payment is to be in full." Jews May Steal from Non-Jews Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a . God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean…" Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep. Baba Kamma 37b. Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel." Jews May Lie to Non-Jews Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile. Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human Yebamoth 98a. All Gentile children are animals. Abodah Zarah 36b . Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth. Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows. Abodah Zarah 67b . "The vessels of Gentiles, do they not impart a worsened flavor to the food cooked in them?" Insults Against Blessed Mary Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus’ mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men. Gloats over Christ Dying Young A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the early age at which Jesus died: "Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus) was?–He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three or thirty-four years old." Says Jesus was a Sorcerer Sanhedrin 43a . Says Jesus ("Yeshu" and in footnote #6, Yeshu "the Nazarene") was executed because he practiced sorcery. Horrible Blasphemy of Our Lord Gittin 57a . Says Jesus ( see footnote #4) is being boiled in "hot excrement." Sanhedrin 43a . Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu was hanged…Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?" Attacks Christians and their Books Rosh Hashanah 17a . Christians ("minim") and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations (see footnote #11 for the definition of minim). Sanhedrin 90a.Those who read the New Testament ("uncanonical books," see footnote #9) will have no portion in the world to come. Shabbath 116a (p. 569). Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament. See footnote #6. Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New Testament books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21). Sick and Insane Teachings Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix it with honey and eat it. Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is given. Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden. Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations. Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old). Sanhedrin 54b . A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old. Kethuboth 11b . "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing." Yebamoth 59b . A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest. Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with. Hagigah 27a . States that no rabbi can ever go to hell. Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate. Gittin 70a . The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic." Toilet and excrement obsessions are laced throughout Talmud and were exhibited in Spielberg*s Schindler’s List where the Hollywood director shows a Jewish child jumping through a toilet seat in an outhouse and falling into a pool of liquefied excrement. There the child meets two other Jewish children partially immersed who inform the interloper that this cesspool is their hiding spot exclusively and that he must find his own. These are the kind of disgusting and morbid, psychotic images which Jewish kids are exposed to constantly in the cinematic liturgy of Holocaustianity and for that matter, in the Talmud as well. Gittin 69b (p. 329). To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh") a Jew should >take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog’s excrement as it loosens the limbs.< Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads. Menahoth 43b-44a . A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a slave. Shabbath 86a-86b. Because Jews are holy they do not have sex during the day unless the house can be made dark. A Jewish scholar can have sex during the day if he uses his garment like a tent to make it dark. Tall Tales of a Roman Holocaust Here are two early "Holocaust" tales from the Talmud: Gittin 57b. Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans. (Ancient demography indicates that there were not 16 million Jews in the entire world at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews). A Revealing Admission Abodah Zarah 70a . The question was asked of the rabbi whether some wine stolen in Pumbeditha might be used or if it was defiled, due to the fact that the thieves might have been Gentiles (a Gentile touching wine would make the wine unclean). The rabbi says not to worry, that the wine is permissible for Jewish use because the majority of the thieves in Pumbeditha, the place where the wine was stolen, are Jews Pharisaic Rituals Erubin 21b (p. 150). >>Rabbi Akiba said to him, "Give me some water to wash my hands." "It will not suffice for drinking," the other complained, "will it suffice for washing your hands?" "What can I do?’ the former replied, "when for neglecting the words of the Rabbis one deserves death? It is better that I myself should die than that I transgress against the opinion of my colleagues." [This is the ritual hand washing condemned by Jesus in Matthew 15: 1-9]. Great Rabbi Deceives A Woman Kallah 51a (Soncino Minor Tractates). Teaches that God approves of rabbis who lie: "The elders were once sitting in the gate when two young lads passed by; one covered his head and the other uncovered his head. Of him who uncovered his head Rabbi Eliezer remarked that he is a bastard. Rabbi Joshua remarked that he is the son of a niddah (a child conceived during a woman’s menstrual period). Rabbi Akiba said that he is both a bastard and a son of a niddah. "They said, ‘What induced you to contradict the opinion of your colleagues?’ He replied, "I will prove it concerning him." He went to the lad’s mother and found her sitting in the market selling beans. "He said to her, ‘My daughter, if you will answer the question I will put to you, I will bring you to the world to come.’ (eternal life). She said to him, ‘Swear it to me.’ Rabbi Akiba, taking the oath with his lips but annulling it in his heart, said to her, ‘What is the status of your son?’ She replied, ‘When I entered the bridal chamber I was niddah (menstruating) and my husband kept away from me; but my best man had intercourse with me and this son was born to me.’ Consequently the child was both a bastard and the son of a niddah. It was declared, ‘..Blessed be the God of Israel Who Revealed His Secret to Rabbi Akiba…" In addition to the theme that God rewards clever liars the preceding discussion is actually about Christ (the lad who ‘uncovered his head’). The reference to the lad’s mother is of course to the mother of Jesus, Blessed Mary (called Miriam and sometimes, Miriam the hairdresser, in Talmud). Genocide Advocated by Talmud Minor Tractates. Soferim 15, Rule 10. This is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the best of the Gentiles should all be killed"). This passage is not from the Soncino edition but is from the original Hebrew of the Babylonian Talmud as quoted by the 1907 Jewish Encyclopedia, published by Funk and Wagnalls and compiled by … read more »

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If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. Well, wouldn’t that be great!! No, Israel means no violence! So, what are we waiting for! Let’s get rid of the violence, let’s get rid of Israel!   JEWS AND MOOOSLIMES ARE NOT EVEN A BILLION BILLION TRILLIONTH SIMILAR TO THE ISLAMIC BEASTS. MOOOSLIMES EAT NON KOSHER FOOD ISLAMIC DOGS.   "Anyone  who can read should read Talmud unexpurgated. It will make your   hair  curl up!"   YEP YOU WILL HAVE TO GIVE UP YOUR BASTARD ALLAH AND SCUM BAG MOHAMED. I CAN SEE HOW THAT WOULD MAKE YOUR HAIR CURL.   PETER     They both accept kosher foods.  The rituals are virtually the same.  They     both reject Christ as the son of god.     —     Discuss Christianity, Islam etc.     http://www.comicboards.org/religion     >     > > What do Jews believe? [ Beliefs ]     > > Most people around the world have no clue about what Judaism teaches.     >     > Anyone  who can read should read Talmud unexpurgated. It will make your     hair     > curl up!     >     >

Response:

JEWS AND MOOOSLIMES ARE NOT EVEN A BILLION BILLION TRILLIONTH SIMILAR TO THE ISLAMIC BEASTS. MOOOSLIMES EAT NON KOSHER FOOD ISLAMIC DOGS. "Anyone  who can read should read Talmud unexpurgated. It will make your hair  curl up!" YEP YOU WILL HAVE TO GIVE UP YOUR BASTARD ALLAH AND SCUM BAG MOHAMED. I CAN SEE HOW THAT WOULD MAKE YOUR HAIR CURL. PETER If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.   If we are going by the texts, the Jews believe in everything that the   Muslims believe.   They both accept kosher foods.  The rituals are virtually the same.  They   both reject Christ as the son of god.   —   Discuss Christianity, Islam etc.   http://www.comicboards.org/religion   >   > > What do Jews believe? [ Beliefs ]   > > Most people around the world have no clue about what Judaism teaches.   >   > Anyone  who can read should read Talmud unexpurgated. It will make your   hair   > curl up!   >   >

Response:

If we are going by the texts, the Jews believe in everything that the Muslims believe. They both accept kosher foods.  The rituals are virtually the same.  They both reject Christ as the son of god. — Discuss Christianity, Islam etc. http://www.comicboards.org/religion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What do Jews believe? [ Beliefs ] > Most people around the world have no clue about what Judaism teaches. > Anyone  who can read should read Talmud unexpurgated. It will make your hair > curl up!

Response:

>What do Jews believe? [ Beliefs ] >Most people around the world have no clue about what Judaism teaches. Worse >yet, many who think that they know, have misconceptions about Judaism, often >coming from Christianity. >I am often asked to explain very briefly what Jews believe. To answer this >question, I have written down the following list. The purpose of the list is >to succinctly explain all of the basic beliefs as fully as possible; and >that the explanation be easily understood by all, including those who have >no prior knowledge of Judaism. As far as I know, there is support for all of >these beliefs in the Hebrew Bible. I hope to write more about each point >later.

I posted your article in the OC_RELIGION discussion forum, and a Jewish participant responded and said there were several heresies in it, from a Jewish point of view. For more information about the OC_RELIGION discussion forum see: http://www.orthodoxy.faithweb.com/religion.htm or http://www.fortunecitiy.com/Victorian/Stanmer/182/religion.htm — Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail – see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Response:

Because of the amount of anti-Jew NAZIS on the news group S.H.A.R.P.’s are real skinheads — not the NAZI BONEHEADS! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> And how this is relevent to alt.skinheads is ? > What do Jews believe? [ Beliefs ] > Most people around the world have no clue about what Judaism teaches. > Worse > yet, many who think that they know, have misconceptions about Judaism, > often > coming from Christianity. > I am often asked to explain very briefly what Jews believe. To answer this > question, I have written down the following list. The purpose of the list > is > to succinctly explain all of the basic beliefs as fully as possible; and > that the explanation be easily understood by all, including those who have > no prior knowledge of Judaism. As far as I know, there is support for all > of > these beliefs in the Hebrew Bible. I hope to write more about each point > later. > I don’t pretend that the following is set in stone. Hopefully, the readers > will point out mistakes or suggest additions. If you wish to do so, I > again > reiterate that the purpose of this list is to explain Judaism briefly and > simply, yet as fully as possible. I welcome all comments. > Judaism’s Creed (according to amhaaretz.com) > Main > 1. God: God is the creator and ruler of all, eternal, all knowing, all > powerful, infinite, non-physical, non-human-like. God has no gender: the > pronoun He only refers to God by convention. God is unique. None of the > other deities exist: they are a product of human imagination. God is one, > and not composed of distinct personalities. > 2. Instruction: God has instructed humans on the best mode of behavior so > as > to promote life. The Instruction is based on certain unchangeable > universal > constants created by God, and is therefore in effect for all time. We are > obligated to follow this Instruction. The Instruction is contained within > the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh). > 3. Future: By following the Instruction, humans, over many centuries, will > make significant positive changes in the world. The changes will come from > the collective efforts of many people, over many generation. > Personal > 4. Judgment: Each person is judged solely based on his own actions, > regardless of other factors, such as his beliefs, ethnicity, or sexual > orientation. The actions of others, such as his ancestors, or holy men, > make > no difference. > 5. Atonement: One lives despite his prior mistakes through the following: > prayer; observing the annual Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur); and > repentance, > attempting to correct the mistakes where possible, resolving not to repeat > the mistakes again, and following the Instruction (including helping the > needy). > 6. Reward: God promises to reward the societies which follow the > Instruction; God never promised individual reward. (Also see Future.) > Clarifications > 7. Good and evil: God is the creator of all things, including the things > that we like, and the things that we dislike. There is no such thing as a > devil. While the Hebrew language does have the word satan, and while this > word does appear in the Hebrew Bible, it means something completely > unrelated to the Christian notion of a devil. Bad things do happen to good > people. What matters is not the circumstance, but that the person behaves > according to the Instruction in every circumstance. > 8. Afterlife: There is no heaven, hell, or salvation. We should worry > about > this life; we have no control over, and therefore should not worry about, > what God will do with us in the afterlife, if any. We can take comfort in > the fact that God will do what is best. From the little information about > the afterlife that we do have, it appears that it is a non-conscious > existence. > 9. Messiah: The Hebrew word moshiach ("messiah") means something > completely > unrelated to the Christian notion of Messiah / Christ. There are no > avatars, > man-gods, demigods, or literal children of God. A person cannot take on or > absolve the sins of another (see Judgment). We are not waiting for > anyone’s > coming. The Future will come about through the actions of humanity. > 10. Chosen people: The Hebrew Bible calls Jews "the chosen people" only a > few times, yet the phrase has been distorted to imply that Jews think that > they are inherently superior to non-Jews. This distorted meaning is false. > Jews are "chosen" in the sense that we were chosen to receive the > Instruction and safeguard it throughout the ages. There is no inherent > superiority or inferiority. (Also see Judgment.) > 11. Sacrifice and Atonement: Sacrifice is not necessary for Atonement. The > purpose of sacrifice is to express a person’s feelings of affinity to God. > When such feelings are expressed, it is easier for the person to atone. In > the absence of sacrifice, the same feelings can be expressed through > prayer. > 12. Ten Commandments: The well-known "Ten Commandments" are just a part of > the Instruction, though an important part. > — > [Zionism is NOT Racism, Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism]

Response:

> What do Jews believe? [ Beliefs ]

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Response:

And how this is relevent to alt.skinheads is ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What do Jews believe? [ Beliefs ] > Most people around the world have no clue about what Judaism teaches. Worse > yet, many who think that they know, have misconceptions about Judaism, often > coming from Christianity. > I am often asked to explain very briefly what Jews believe. To answer this > question, I have written down the following list. The purpose of the list is > to succinctly explain all of the basic beliefs as fully as possible; and > that the explanation be easily understood by all, including those who have > no prior knowledge of Judaism. As far as I know, there is support for all of > these beliefs in the Hebrew Bible. I hope to write more about each point > later. > I don’t pretend that the following is set in stone. Hopefully, the readers > will point out mistakes or suggest additions. If you wish to do so, I again > reiterate that the purpose of this list is to explain Judaism briefly and > simply, yet as fully as possible. I welcome all comments. > Judaism’s Creed (according to amhaaretz.com) > Main > 1. God: God is the creator and ruler of all, eternal, all knowing, all > powerful, infinite, non-physical, non-human-like. God has no gender: the > pronoun He only refers to God by convention. God is unique. None of the > other deities exist: they are a product of human imagination. God is one, > and not composed of distinct personalities. > 2. Instruction: God has instructed humans on the best mode of behavior so as > to promote life. The Instruction is based on certain unchangeable universal > constants created by God, and is therefore in effect for all time. We are > obligated to follow this Instruction. The Instruction is contained within > the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh). > 3. Future: By following the Instruction, humans, over many centuries, will > make significant positive changes in the world. The changes will come from > the collective efforts of many people, over many generation. > Personal > 4. Judgment: Each person is judged solely based on his own actions, > regardless of other factors, such as his beliefs, ethnicity, or sexual > orientation. The actions of others, such as his ancestors, or holy men, make > no difference. > 5. Atonement: One lives despite his prior mistakes through the following: > prayer; observing the annual Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur); and repentance, > attempting to correct the mistakes where possible, resolving not to repeat > the mistakes again, and following the Instruction (including helping the > needy). > 6. Reward: God promises to reward the societies which follow the > Instruction; God never promised individual reward. (Also see Future.) > Clarifications > 7. Good and evil: God is the creator of all things, including the things > that we like, and the things that we dislike. There is no such thing as a > devil. While the Hebrew language does have the word satan, and while this > word does appear in the Hebrew Bible, it means something completely > unrelated to the Christian notion of a devil. Bad things do happen to good > people. What matters is not the circumstance, but that the person behaves > according to the Instruction in every circumstance. > 8. Afterlife: There is no heaven, hell, or salvation. We should worry about > this life; we have no control over, and therefore should not worry about, > what God will do with us in the afterlife, if any. We can take comfort in > the fact that God will do what is best. From the little information about > the afterlife that we do have, it appears that it is a non-conscious > existence. > 9. Messiah: The Hebrew word moshiach ("messiah") means something completely > unrelated to the Christian notion of Messiah / Christ. There are no avatars, > man-gods, demigods, or literal children of God. A person cannot take on or > absolve the sins of another (see Judgment). We are not waiting for anyone’s > coming. The Future will come about through the actions of humanity. > 10. Chosen people: The Hebrew Bible calls Jews "the chosen people" only a > few times, yet the phrase has been distorted to imply that Jews think that > they are inherently superior to non-Jews. This distorted meaning is false. > Jews are "chosen" in the sense that we were chosen to receive the > Instruction and safeguard it throughout the ages. There is no inherent > superiority or inferiority. (Also see Judgment.) > 11. Sacrifice and Atonement: Sacrifice is not necessary for Atonement. The > purpose of sacrifice is to express a person’s feelings of affinity to God. > When such feelings are expressed, it is easier for the person to atone. In > the absence of sacrifice, the same feelings can be expressed through prayer. > 12. Ten Commandments: The well-known "Ten Commandments" are just a part of > the Instruction, though an important part. > — > [Zionism is NOT Racism, Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism]

Response:

Wrong again you IDIOT!!! The Talmud was written over 500 years before Maimonides was born!!! We already went over this several times and I already posted information on Maimonides proving you wrong!!! But you are too stupid to know that, or you flame so much you miss all the posts that have shown your ignorance!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You have never read it! > First of all it is not in English! Second of all you are too stupid to > understand it! Thirdly, all you know is from NAZI and ARAB web sites that > post false quotes from the Talmud and mistranslations and information > out-of-context! > But it is useless to expalin any of that to you, because you are too > filled > with hate!!! > Nothing to explain Maimonides who spent a lifetime organizing talmud lived > in Cairo, and died in Cairo. > I visited his grave there. You probably did not know that jews wanted to > kill him and he felt safe ONLY in a muslim country such as Egypt! > Talmud is readily available in Arabic, Russian , german, and few other > languages. > > > What do Jews believe? [ Beliefs ] > > > Most people around the world have no clue about what Judaism teaches. > > Anyone  who can read should read Talmud unexpurgated. It will make your > hair > > curl up!

Response:

This Jew believes that you should go back to Ireland, rejoin the IRA and blow something up. Then when you bitch about terroist plots, you can look in the mirror. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > What do Jews believe? [ Beliefs ] > Most people around the world have no clue about what Judaism teaches. Worse > yet, many who think that they know, have misconceptions about Judaism, often > coming from Christianity. > I am often asked to explain very briefly what Jews believe. To answer this > question, I have written down the following list. The purpose of the list is > to succinctly explain all of the basic beliefs as fully as possible; and > that the explanation be easily understood by all, including those who have > no prior knowledge of Judaism. As far as I know, there is support for all of > these beliefs in the Hebrew Bible. I hope to write more about each point > later. > I don’t pretend that the following is set in stone. Hopefully, the readers > will point out mistakes or suggest additions. If you wish to do so, I again > reiterate that the purpose of this list is to explain Judaism briefly and > simply, yet as fully as possible. I welcome all comments. > Judaism’s Creed (according to amhaaretz.com) > Main > 1. God: God is the creator and ruler of all, eternal, all knowing, all > powerful, infinite, non-physical, non-human-like. God has no gender: the > pronoun He only refers to God by convention. God is unique. None of the > other deities exist: they are a product of human imagination. God is one, > and not composed of distinct personalities. > 2. Instruction: God has instructed humans on the best mode of behavior so as > to promote life. The Instruction is based on certain unchangeable universal > constants created by God, and is therefore in effect for all time. We are > obligated to follow this Instruction. The Instruction is contained within > the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh). > 3. Future: By following the Instruction, humans, over many centuries, will > make significant positive changes in the world. The changes will come from > the collective efforts of many people, over many generation. > Personal > 4. Judgment: Each person is judged solely based on his own actions, > regardless of other factors, such as his beliefs, ethnicity, or sexual > orientation. The actions of others, such as his ancestors, or holy men, make > no difference. > 5. Atonement: One lives despite his prior mistakes through the following: > prayer; observing the annual Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur); and repentance, > attempting to correct the mistakes where possible, resolving not to repeat > the mistakes again, and following the Instruction (including helping the > needy). > 6. Reward: God promises to reward the societies which follow the > Instruction; God never promised individual reward. (Also see Future.) > Clarifications > 7. Good and evil: God is the creator of all things, including the things > that we like, and the things that we dislike. There is no such thing as a > devil. While the Hebrew language does have the word satan, and while this > word does appear in the Hebrew Bible, it means something completely > unrelated to the Christian notion of a devil. Bad things do happen to good > people. What matters is not the circumstance, but that the person behaves > according to the Instruction in every circumstance. > 8. Afterlife: There is no heaven, hell, or salvation. We should worry about > this life; we have no control over, and therefore should not worry about, > what God will do with us in the afterlife, if any. We can take comfort in > the fact that God will do what is best. From the little information about > the afterlife that we do have, it appears that it is a non-conscious > existence. > 9. Messiah: The Hebrew word moshiach ("messiah") means something completely > unrelated to the Christian notion of Messiah / Christ. There are no avatars, > man-gods, demigods, or literal children of God. A person cannot take on or > absolve the sins of another (see Judgment). We are not waiting for anyone’s > coming. The Future will come about through the actions of humanity. > 10. Chosen people: The Hebrew Bible calls Jews "the chosen people" only a > few times, yet the phrase has been distorted to imply that Jews think that > they are inherently superior to non-Jews. This distorted meaning is false. > Jews are "chosen" in the sense that we were chosen to receive the > Instruction and safeguard it throughout the ages. There is no inherent > superiority or inferiority. (Also see Judgment.) > 11. Sacrifice and Atonement: Sacrifice is not necessary for Atonement. The > purpose of sacrifice is to express a person’s feelings of affinity to God. > When such feelings are expressed, it is easier for the person to atone. In > the absence of sacrifice, the same feelings can be expressed through prayer. > 12. Ten Commandments: The well-known "Ten Commandments" are just a part of > the Instruction, though an important part. > — > [Zionism is NOT Racism, Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism]

Response:

> What do Jews believe? [ Beliefs ] > Most people around the world have no clue about what Judaism teaches.

Anyone  who can read should read Talmud unexpurgated. It will make your hair curl up!

Response:

You have never read it! First of all it is not in English! Second of all you are too stupid to understand it! Thirdly, all you know is from NAZI and ARAB web sites that post false quotes from the Talmud and mistranslations and information out-of-context! But it is useless to expalin any of that to you, because you are too filled with hate!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What do Jews believe? [ Beliefs ] > Most people around the world have no clue about what Judaism teaches. > Anyone  who can read should read Talmud unexpurgated. It will make your hair > curl up!

Response:

> You have never read it! > First of all it is not in English! Second of all you are too stupid to > understand it! Thirdly, all you know is from NAZI and ARAB web sites that > post false quotes from the Talmud and mistranslations and information > out-of-context! > But it is useless to expalin any of that to you, because you are too filled > with hate!!!

Nothing to explain Maimonides who spent a lifetime organizing talmud lived in Cairo, and died in Cairo. I visited his grave there. You probably did not know that jews wanted to kill him and he felt safe ONLY in a muslim country such as Egypt! Talmud is readily available in Arabic, Russian , german, and few other languages. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > What do Jews believe? [ Beliefs ] > > Most people around the world have no clue about what Judaism teaches. > Anyone  who can read should read Talmud unexpurgated. It will make your > hair > curl up!

Response:

What do Jews believe? [ Beliefs ] Most people around the world have no clue about what Judaism teaches. Worse yet, many who think that they know, have misconceptions about Judaism, often coming from Christianity. I am often asked to explain very briefly what Jews believe. To answer this question, I have written down the following list. The purpose of the list is to succinctly explain all of the basic beliefs as fully as possible; and that the explanation be easily understood by all, including those who have no prior knowledge of Judaism. As far as I know, there is support for all of these beliefs in the Hebrew Bible. I hope to write more about each point later. I don’t pretend that the following is set in stone. Hopefully, the readers will point out mistakes or suggest additions. If you wish to do so, I again reiterate that the purpose of this list is to explain Judaism briefly and simply, yet as fully as possible. I welcome all comments. Judaism’s Creed (according to amhaaretz.com) Main 1. God: God is the creator and ruler of all, eternal, all knowing, all powerful, infinite, non-physical, non-human-like. God has no gender: the pronoun He only refers to God by convention. God is unique. None of the other deities exist: they are a product of human imagination. God is one, and not composed of distinct personalities. 2. Instruction: God has instructed humans on the best mode of behavior so as to promote life. The Instruction is based on certain unchangeable universal constants created by God, and is therefore in effect for all time. We are obligated to follow this Instruction. The Instruction is contained within the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh). 3. Future: By following the Instruction, humans, over many centuries, will make significant positive changes in the world. The changes will come from the collective efforts of many people, over many generation. Personal 4. Judgment: Each person is judged solely based on his own actions, regardless of other factors, such as his beliefs, ethnicity, or sexual orientation. The actions of others, such as his ancestors, or holy men, make no difference. 5. Atonement: One lives despite his prior mistakes through the following: prayer; observing the annual Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur); and repentance, attempting to correct the mistakes where possible, resolving not to repeat the mistakes again, and following the Instruction (including helping the needy). 6. Reward: God promises to reward the societies which follow the Instruction; God never promised individual reward. (Also see Future.) Clarifications 7. Good and evil: God is the creator of all things, including the things that we like, and the things that we dislike. There is no such thing as a devil. While the Hebrew language does have the word satan, and while this word does appear in the Hebrew Bible, it means something completely unrelated to the Christian notion of a devil. Bad things do happen to good people. What matters is not the circumstance, but that the person behaves according to the Instruction in every circumstance. 8. Afterlife: There is no heaven, hell, or salvation. We should worry about this life; we have no control over, and therefore should not worry about, what God will do with us in the afterlife, if any. We can take comfort in the fact that God will do what is best. From the little information about the afterlife that we do have, it appears that it is a non-conscious existence. 9. Messiah: The Hebrew word moshiach ("messiah") means something completely unrelated to the Christian notion of Messiah / Christ. There are no avatars, man-gods, demigods, or literal children of God. A person cannot take on or absolve the sins of another (see Judgment). We are not waiting for anyone’s coming. The Future will come about through the actions of humanity. 10. Chosen people: The Hebrew Bible calls Jews "the chosen people" only a few times, yet the phrase has been distorted to imply that Jews think that they are inherently superior to non-Jews. This distorted meaning is false. Jews are "chosen" in the sense that we were chosen to receive the Instruction and safeguard it throughout the ages. There is no inherent superiority or inferiority. (Also see Judgment.) 11. Sacrifice and Atonement: Sacrifice is not necessary for Atonement. The purpose of sacrifice is to express a person’s feelings of affinity to God. When such feelings are expressed, it is easier for the person to atone. In the absence of sacrifice, the same feelings can be expressed through prayer. 12. Ten Commandments: The well-known "Ten Commandments" are just a part of the Instruction, though an important part. — [Zionism is NOT Racism, Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism]

Response:

Question:

Hello. We’re staying at the Grace (CBD) in August. We don’t really want to spend every day having breakfast in the hotel. Any suggestions where to go? Cheers, Simon.

Response:

There are literally dozens of cafes around York Street that serve breakfast for around AUD7-10. About 100 or so yards away is Queen Victoria Building and that too has many cafes serving breakfast and other meals. You’ll have unlimited choices. Enjoy. ps

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello. > We’re staying at the Grace (CBD) in August. We don’t really want to > spend every day having breakfast in the hotel. > Any suggestions where to go? > Cheers, > Simon.

Response:

>There are literally dozens of cafes around York Street that serve breakfast >for around AUD7-10. About 100 or so yards away is Queen Victoria Building >and that too has many cafes serving breakfast and other meals. You’ll have >unlimited choices. >Enjoy. >ps

Thanks Pravin – much appreciated. Simon.

Response:

>> There are literally dozens of cafes around York Street that serve breakfast > for around AUD7-10. About 100 or so yards away is Queen Victoria Building > and that too has many cafes serving breakfast and other meals. You’ll have > unlimited choices. > Enjoy. > ps > Thanks Pravin – much appreciated. > Simon.

There are some great places on the top floor of the QVB which, although not exactly cheap (would hate to think what rent runs in that building – a parking spot, literally, nearby was just listed for AUD$210K) are quite tasty and attractive.  The edifice itself has great ambiance.

Response:

which, although not > exactly cheap (would hate to think what rent runs in that building – a > parking spot, literally, nearby was just listed for AUD$210K) are quite > tasty and attractive.  The edifice itself has great ambiance.

Raffi – When it opened a 3 m. x 3m. space was about a grand a week. In 1987 my wife was working as a waitress in a moderate size coffee lounge on the Castlereagh level of Centrepoint – they were paying about $3 000.00 a week rent – one can only guess what it would be now. (One must also remember that there is also the "advertising charge" and other delightful extras – I looked at a moderate sized travel agency in Westfield Liverpool in 1997 and the total annual outlay to Westfield was about $76 000.00! Thanks, but no thanks.) — Tony Bailey Mercury Travel Books

Response:

| Hello. | | We’re staying at the Grace (CBD) in August. We don’t really want to | spend every day having breakfast in the hotel. | | Any suggestions where to go? | | Cheers, | Simon.

Response:

>Hello. >We’re staying at the Grace (CBD) in August. We don’t really want to >spend every day having breakfast in the hotel. >Any suggestions where to go?

McDonalds do GREAT breakfasts. Dave ===== NSW Rural Fire Service – become a volunteer today. http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/

Response:

>>> Hello. >> We’re staying at the Grace (CBD) in August. We don’t really want to >> spend every day having breakfast in the hotel. >> Any suggestions where to go? > McDonalds do GREAT breakfasts. > They do? There is *nothing on this planet* that would get me into a > McDonalds for breakfast. Or any other time, actually.

Craig, maybe you can enlighten me about the Singapore arches – the city state is a tiny encapsulation of four major cultures, three of whom really cook (then there are the poms).  Why in the name of heaven would the Mickey D’s on the quay ever be able to make a living?  The franchisee should be flogged for existing (imagine what they would do if patrons littered the streets with the wrappers like they do everywhere else on the planet)

Response:

> D’s on the quay ever be able to make a living?  The franchisee should be > flogged for existing (imagine what they would do if patrons littered the > streets with the wrappers like they do everywhere else on the planet)

Actually Raffi they do, I once arrived in SIN on a Saturday arvo and woke up on SYD time early on Sunday morning and went for a walk on Orchard Rd. where the litter  from the Saturday night festivities was about knee deep – including lots of take aways from the Golden Chew & Spew. By dawn it had all been cleaned up, leaving the place its usual immaculate self. Give one of the locals a fair chance of evading the fuzz and they are as bad as everyone else. — Tony Bailey Mercury Travel Books

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hello. >We’re staying at the Grace (CBD) in August. We don’t really want to >spend every day having breakfast in the hotel. >Any suggestions where to go? >McDonalds do GREAT breakfasts. >Dave >===== >NSW Rural Fire Service – become a volunteer today. >http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/

They’ll be staying in the centre of one of the great cities of the world for variety of food styles and quality of cuisine. Going to Maccas for breakfast in Sydney is a little like staying at a youth hostel when you could stay at a 5* hotel for only a little extra. I didn’t plan where to eat in Sydney; just kept my eyes open as I wandered and selected from the incredible variety available. Step outside the door and walk 200m in any direction and you’ll probably pass six restaurants. Follow your nose – literally. Cheers, Alan —

Response:

>>Hello. >We’re staying at the Grace (CBD) in August. We don’t really want to >spend every day having breakfast in the hotel. >Any suggestions where to go? >You need to go to Cafe Bitter and Twisted, 38 York St. Pretty much >across the road. Run by friends of mine. Tell ‘em Craig sent ya.

Think I’ll take you up on that Craig. Thanks, Simon.

Response:

>They’ll be staying in the centre of one of the great cities of the world >for variety of food styles and quality of cuisine. >Going to Maccas for breakfast in Sydney is a little like staying at a >youth hostel when you could stay at a 5* hotel for only a little extra. >I didn’t plan where to eat in Sydney; just kept my eyes open as I >wandered and selected from the incredible variety available. >Step outside the door and walk 200m in any direction and you’ll probably >pass six restaurants. Follow your nose – literally.

I guess my post was so high it went over EVERYBODY’s heads. Dave ===== NSW Rural Fire Service – become a volunteer today. http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/

Response:

>> D’s on the quay ever be able to make a living?  The franchisee should be > flogged for existing (imagine what they would do if patrons littered the > streets with the wrappers like they do everywhere else on the planet) > Actually Raffi they do, > I once arrived in SIN on a Saturday arvo and woke up on SYD time early on > Sunday morning and went for a walk on Orchard Rd. where the litter  from the > Saturday night festivities was about knee deep – including lots of take > aways from the Golden Chew & Spew. By dawn it had all been cleaned up, > leaving the place its usual immaculate self. Give one of the locals a fair > chance of evading the fuzz and they are as bad as everyone else.

Imagine once Nicorette becomes legal in Singapore – they had to change the law on this type of ‘chewing gum’ in the wake of the US Free Trade agreement. OK, now I’m REALLY OT.  What a concept.

Response:

> Craig, maybe you can enlighten me about the Singapore arches – the city > state is a tiny encapsulation of four major cultures, three of whom really > cook (then there are the poms).  Why in the name of heaven would the Mickey > D’s on the quay ever be able to make a living?  The franchisee should be > flogged for existing (imagine what they would do if patrons littered the > streets with the wrappers like they do everywhere else on the planet)

Rather like a sorbet between courses…. something bland that allows you to appreciate the subtleties of the *real* food ;-) Other than that, macca’s can be the traveller’s friend…. you know you will be served fast, you know what you will have before you get through the doors, and you know that you probably won’t die from it before you reach your next bivouac. That can be very reassuring when you’re on a long drive. (Having driven the Pacific Highway route from Sydney to Lismore countless times, sightseeing loses its appeal and getting to the destination in the shortest legal time becomes the main objective.) Oh, and the toilets are a bit more up-market than a hole in the ground with a couple of splintery planks across it, if you’re travelling with somebody with somewhat delicate sensibilities ;-) Dave Campbell

Response:

>Oh, and the toilets are a bit more up-market than a hole in the ground with >a couple of splintery planks across it, if you’re travelling with somebody >with somewhat delicate sensibilities ;-) >Dave Campbell

Must admit we got a surprise in Europe when we had to get the manager to open them and pay 50p for their use. Cheers, Alan —

Response:

>I guess my post was so high it went over EVERYBODY’s heads. >Dave >=====

Too subtle? Cheers, Alan —

Response:

>>Craig, maybe you can enlighten me about the Singapore arches – the >city state is a tiny encapsulation of four major cultures, three of >whom really cook (then there are the poms).  Why in the name of heaven >would the Mickey D’s on the quay ever be able to make a living? > I have no idea Raffi. I can only assume it has some suggestion of > worldly sophistication, like sipping a coffee at Starbucks … to > name another establishment in which you will never find me. Yechh!

Based on observations of my young cousins in Singapore, I’m guessing novelty. — Chris

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Other than that, macca’s can be the traveller’s friend…. you know you will >be served fast, you know what you will have before you get through the >doors, and you know that you probably won’t die from it before you reach >your next bivouac. > Sorry, I find none of those reasons at all compelling. One of the > delights of travel is savouring a great variety of cuisines. >That can be very reassuring when you’re on a long drive. >(Having driven the Pacific Highway route from Sydney to Lismore countless >times, sightseeing loses its appeal and getting to the destination in the >shortest legal time becomes the main objective.) > Indeed. But when one is hungry, there are thousands of little caf

Question:

I will have three days for Kakadu National Park.  I have already booked the rental car and hotels.  So I’m trying to find day tours leaving from within Kakadu to the must-see spots.  Most of the private tours seem to be multi-day and include hotels, transportation from Darwin, etc., which I don’t need.  Any suggestions? Second question:  Are these tours readily available if I wait until I get there to make these decisions?  Or do they fill up?

Response:

> I will have three days for Kakadu National Park.  I have already > booked the rental car and hotels.  So I’m trying to find day tours > leaving from within Kakadu to the must-see spots.  Most of the private > tours seem to be multi-day and include hotels, transportation from > Darwin, etc., which I don’t need.  Any suggestions? > Second question:  Are these tours readily available if I wait until I > get there to make these decisions?  Or do they fill up?

If you have already got the car & accommodation why do you need a tour?  use your car & drive to points of interest, go for a walk & drive on at your own pace.  I’d make the first stop the NPWS headquarters, near Jabairu, which I assume is where you are staying?  You can pay to take a cruise on the East Alligator river, or visit numerous billabongs & aboriginal sites which are free.  The Park office will tell you when/where the free ranger talks are. (Usually at sunset at Ubirr Rock but earlier at Noulangie from memory). Vicki

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I will have three days for Kakadu National Park.  I have already > booked the rental car and hotels.  So I’m trying to find day tours > leaving from within Kakadu to the must-see spots.  Most of the private > tours seem to be multi-day and include hotels, transportation from > Darwin, etc., which I don’t need.  Any suggestions? > Second question:  Are these tours readily available if I wait until I > get there to make these decisions?  Or do they fill up? >If you have already got the car & accommodation why do you need a tour?  use >your car & drive to points of interest, go for a walk & drive on at your own >pace.  I’d make the first stop the NPWS headquarters, near Jabairu, which I >assume is where you are staying?  You can pay to take a cruise on the East >Alligator river, or visit numerous billabongs & aboriginal sites which are >free.  The Park office will tell you when/where the free ranger talks are. >(Usually at sunset at Ubirr Rock but earlier at Noulangie from memory).

You’ll need a tour if you want to go someplace requiring 4WD, like Jim Jim Falls, but 3 days can easily be filled up with great stuff you can drive to yourself — which includes most of the "must see" spots. I think you do have to book for a few things (the Yellow Water cruise and possibly some guided walks), but not before arriving at the hotel. Same if you want to take a helicopter flight or joy ride in a small plane. If your budget can cover it, I highly recommend the plane trip! Seeing the area from the air gives you a perspective that you can’t get from the ground, and enhances the ground experience. Jean http://www.avalook.com.au/

Response:

Why Kakadu??? What is wrong with Litchfield Park??? Easier to get to, more to see and quarter the expense. AntHony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I will have three days for Kakadu National Park.  I have already > booked the rental car and hotels.  So I’m trying to find day tours > leaving from within Kakadu to the must-see spots.  Most of the private > tours seem to be multi-day and include hotels, transportation from > Darwin, etc., which I don’t need.  Any suggestions? > Second question:  Are these tours readily available if I wait until I > get there to make these decisions?  Or do they fill up? > If you have already got the car & accommodation why do you need a tour? use > your car & drive to points of interest, go for a walk & drive on at your own > pace.  I’d make the first stop the NPWS headquarters, near Jabairu, which I > assume is where you are staying?  You can pay to take a cruise on the East > Alligator river, or visit numerous billabongs & aboriginal sites which are > free.  The Park office will tell you when/where the free ranger talks are. > (Usually at sunset at Ubirr Rock but earlier at Noulangie from memory). > Vicki

Response:

> Why Kakadu??? What is wrong with Litchfield Park??? > Easier to get to, more to see and quarter the expense.

And two completely different places. — Tony Bailey Mercury Travel Books

Response:

> Why Kakadu??? What is wrong with Litchfield Park??? > Easier to get to, more to see and quarter the expense. > And two completely different places.

Correct. One is controlled by a group that has numerous times shown that it really doesn’t want tourists in the place, and prices the entry accordingly. The other is still in public control, encourages tourists with appropriate upgrades, and is priced accordingly. PhilD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Tony Bailey > Mercury Travel Books

Response:

>> Why Kakadu??? What is wrong with Litchfield Park??? > Easier to get to, more to see and quarter the expense. >And two completely different places.

Rubbish !! Both Bush and Waterfalls…. AT least in Litchfield you can actually get to them and not have to pay some exorbitant price to have a look at what  essentially  belongs to us all rather thatn a select group of people.

Response:

> Rubbish !! > Both Bush and Waterfalls…. AT least in Litchfield you can actually > get to them and not have to pay some exorbitant price to have a look > at what  essentially  belongs to us all rather thatn a select group of > people.

But the major point of Kakadu is the rock paintings. — Tony Bailey Mercury Travel Books

Response: