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>>I love the fact that you can fly anywhere from London Heathrow, >Actually there are a surprising number of places that you can’t fly to >from Heathrow but you can from Frankfurt or Amsterdam!
Adopting Roland’s hair splitting, you can in fact fly to anywhere in the world from Heathrow, some destinations require a connection and are not non-stop. Applies to any other airport as well of course. – Lansbury www.uk-air.net FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup
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remarked: >Isn’t DFW severed by AA from LHR?? >Sorry, my mistake. They do seem to have one direct flight, but very >booked up (ie doesn’t show up very often on booking sites).
Later… I’ve been tricked by their booking site which claims flight 67 is direct. In fact it has a long stopover (and plane change) at ORD! So DFW is severed (sic) from LHR. — Roland Perry
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>> No. Under Bermuda II, no airline can fly between DFW and LHR. >Yo’ur right.. its LGW. Whats Bermuda II anyway??
That’s the treaty (from 1977?) that currently governs UK-US route rights. It’s very complicated. First of all, there is the restriction that no more than two US and two UK airlines may fly between the UK and US (I don’t know if fifth-freedom carriers like Air India and Air New Zealand are explicitly mentioned in the treaty). Then there is a list of destinations that may be served by US airlines from London, and a (different) list of destinations that may be served by UK airlines. Then there is a shorter list of destinations that may be served from LHR (BOS, NYC, PHL, BWI, WAS, MIA, DTW, ORD, LAX, SFO, SEA and a couple of others – maybe ANC and MSP, with some weird restrictions, like MSP can only be served by a US airline). The lists mutated over the years: I think LAS and PIT were later additions. In any case, there are no airports in Texas that can be served from LHR under Bermuda II.
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>Isn’t DFW severed by AA from LHR??
Sorry, my mistake. They do seem to have one direct flight, but very booked up (ie doesn’t show up very often on booking sites). Otherwise they recommend going via Chicago. — Roland Perry
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>Isn’t DFW severed by AA from LHR??
No. Under Bermuda II, no airline can fly between DFW and LHR.
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> >Isn’t DFW severed by AA from LHR?? > No. Under Bermuda II, no airline can fly between DFW and LHR.
Yo’ur right.. its LGW. Whats Bermuda II anyway??
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>I love the fact that you can fly anywhere from London Heathrow,
Actually there are a surprising number of places that you can’t fly to from Heathrow but you can from Frankfurt or Amsterdam! >but >that doesn’t change the fact that it is a poorly laid-out airport. >Having recently changed planes in Amsterdam Schiphol, I think I now >know which is my favourite European hub.
Glad you had a good tranfer at AMS, if it ever crops up try Copenhagen, just as pleasant, on a slightly smaller scale. >(Paris-Charles de Gaulle, >for all of its modern architecture, is not necessarily much better >than Heathrow…boarding busses to change planes is soooooooo >unnecessary.)
The last time I used Heathrow as a transfer point, there was a bus to the 747 on departure, a bus from the 747 on arrival, and of course a bus between terminals! –==++AJC++==–
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>>I love the fact that you can fly anywhere from London Heathrow, >Actually there are a surprising number of places that you can’t fly to >from Heathrow but you can from Frankfurt or Amsterdam!
Or Gatwick, even. — Roland Perry
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> Actually there are a surprising number of places that you can’t fly to > from Heathrow but you can from Frankfurt or Amsterdam!
Places Served by AMS or FRA and not LON. I can think of one off the top of my head, MNL by both KLM and Lufthansa. Any others?
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> Actually there are a surprising number of places that you can’t fly to > from Heathrow but you can from Frankfurt or Amsterdam! > Places Served by AMS or FRA and not LON. I can think of one off the top of > my head, MNL by both KLM and Lufthansa. > Any others?
Lima, Peru.
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>Places Served by AMS or FRA and not LON.
and not LHR >I can think of one off the top of my head, MNL by both KLM and >Lufthansa. Any others?
What about DFW, HOU and ATL? There may be more of that ilk. — Roland Perry
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> >Places Served by AMS or FRA and not LON. > and not LHR >I can think of one off the top of my head, MNL by both KLM and >Lufthansa. Any others? > What about DFW, HOU and ATL? There may be more of that ilk.
Isn’t DFW severed by AA from LHR?? I remember flying to Calgary once via DFW.
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> > > Actually there are a surprising number of places that you can’t fly to > > from Heathrow but you can from Frankfurt or Amsterdam! > Places Served by AMS or FRA and not LON. I can think of one off the top of > my head, MNL by both KLM and Lufthansa. > Any others? > Lima, Peru.
That’s the one I thought of immediately, partly because I’m planning a trip for next year. It’s not _so_ suprising though. Iberian are the only other European airline to fly the route. (Are there any others I’m missing?) I did ask the Peruvian (*)Ambassador to the UK if this was an issue that the Peruvian government would be interested in addressing in some way, and he said yes, but it seemed like a ‘political’ answer. Anyway, from MAN, you can do it in two non-stop flights, best option seems to be changing at MIA, but the total journey time is quicker with KLM, even though the flight from AMS to LIM stops somewhere. (Iberian is a lot more expensive on all the sites I’ve tried thus far, and the connections from MAN to MAD are a bit iffy.) David (*) He gave a talk at the local Spanish cultural centre- he’s not an acquaintance! — David Horne- www.davidhorne.net usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >>Andrew Williams, who stayed in overnight accommodation on Monday night >after > >>his flight was cancelled, described the scene at Heathrow as "shambolic > >>chaos". > > So business as usual at BAA’s airports 
> > –==++AJC++==– > Why pick on BAA? Edinburgh, my local BAA airportm may be busy but > I’ve never seen it "shambolic". There have always been check-in staff > when they’ve been needed, in my experience. Isn’t this more likely to > be a London, or a Heathrow, or a British Airways problem, than a > problem with BAA airports? > — > — Chris.
re positioned top posting… >It’s never been shambolic. Maybe "shambolic, bABy…"
It was most dire last night News at 10 lead BA Cancels Flights more distruption today. ITN News 24 Passengers in distress as problems at BA go on and on. then both had the same quotation Management stated that this was due to ”’Maintainance Problems” (not very reassuring to passengers isnt that statment), and lack of ground staff. It looks like Management at BA once again are crumbling, if they cannot work out what flights they are to operate in late August when they have coped at the highest peak at the last week of July, and how many staff are needed for those flights and full loads, then something is sadly wrong somewhere.
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> As for EDI, it was my local > airport for 5 years, I used it a lot, and it was delightful. Easy to > use, light, airy, view of the planes from the cafe/bar, observation > deck upstairs. When I returned after an absence of a few years I was > appalled at what BAA have done to the place. The public areas are > entirely closed in, the observation deck has gone, from the disgusting > eating area you get a view of the car park, car rental has been moved > just far enough away so that you need to take a shuttle bus (even LGW > doesn’t require that).
…nicely summed up, all issues that I’d noticed too at EDI. However, I wouldn’t say what was on offer at the eating area was ever particularly inviting before. I was expecting deep fried Mars bars there… To their credit, I would say that the airside areas are far more spacious and inviting than before. Cheers, Howard
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> As for EDI, it was my local > airport for 5 years, I used it a lot, and it was delightful. Easy to > use, light, airy, view of the planes from the cafe/bar, observation > deck upstairs. When I returned after an absence of a few years I was > appalled at what BAA have done to the place. The public areas are > entirely closed in, the observation deck has gone, from the disgusting > eating area you get a view of the car park, car rental has been moved > just far enough away so that you need to take a shuttle bus (even LGW > doesn’t require that). >…nicely summed up, all issues that I’d noticed too at EDI. However, I >wouldn’t say what was on offer at the eating area was ever particularly >inviting before. I was expecting deep fried Mars bars there…
I’m sure they were there somewhere:-) I guess it was just the ambiance of the placed that made the whole experience seem more pleasant, the new version just seems to resemble some nightmare ‘foodcourt’ in a downmarket Arndale centre! >To their credit, I would say that the airside areas are far more spacious >and inviting than before.
I suppose that’s true, but it all seemed so passenger-friendly before, especially at the BD, and the BA Shuttle gates. In each case it was through the door, check-in desk right in front of you, escalator right there straight up to security and in to lounge, from there straight down the airbridge on to the plane. >Cheers, Howard
–==++AJC++==–
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I love the fact that you can fly anywhere from London Heathrow, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is a poorly laid-out airport. Having recently changed planes in Amsterdam Schiphol, I think I now know which is my favourite European hub. (Paris-Charles de Gaulle, for all of its modern architecture, is not necessarily much better than Heathrow…boarding busses to change planes is soooooooo unnecessary.)
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>Flights cancelled by BA shortage >BA passengers face a second day of delays after staff shortages and >technical problems forced the airline to cancel 25 flights at Heathrow. >Twenty-two short-haul flights were cancelled on Monday when BA failed to >open check-in desks due to a lack of staff. Ten were called off on Tuesday.
Hmm, the Early morning (well 9ish) BAXXX out of Schiphol to LHR was cancelled too, did it really get that bad that early? My 11:45 from AMS to LHR was delayed by about 30 minutes due to late arrival (made worse of course because BA don’t seem to have learnt how to get a plane boarded quickly, when will other airlines realise the low-costs do do somethings which aren’t just money saving!) No information, or even an apology for being late, in fact they seemed to make out they were on time… Jim.
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It’s never been shambolic. Maybe "shambolic, bABy…"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Andrew Williams, who stayed in overnight accommodation on Monday night after >>his flight was cancelled, described the scene at Heathrow as "shambolic >>chaos". > So business as usual at BAA’s airports > –==++AJC++==– > Why pick on BAA? Edinburgh, my local BAA airportm may be busy but > I’ve never seen it "shambolic". There have always been check-in staff > when they’ve been needed, in my experience. Isn’t this more likely to > be a London, or a Heathrow, or a British Airways problem, than a > problem with BAA airports? > — > — Chris.
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> Why pick on BAA? Edinburgh, my local BAA airportm may be busy but > I’ve never seen it "shambolic". There have always been check-in staff > when they’ve been needed, in my experience. Isn’t this more likely to > be a London, or a Heathrow, or a British Airways problem, than a > problem with BAA airports?
I fly through EDI about 25 times each year. Check in and security can be a nightmare, believe me, but I agree that it’s still a walk in the park compared to LHR. My worst experience at EDI was when I got caught up in the European MTV awards last February on the morning after. It was most definitely "shambolic"! Imagine all those divas having to line up to check in for their flights at 6am – it was like they couldn’t leave the place fast enough. The usual scenario at the EDI security points pervades – plenty of x-ray screening points, but only enough staff to man 2/3rds of them. Oh, and the usual string of pax who don’t seem to be able to put their cellphones in their carry on, or wait until they get to the x-ray point before considering emptying their pockets. Kind Regards, Howard
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Andrew Williams, who stayed in overnight accommodation on Monday night after >>his flight was cancelled, described the scene at Heathrow as "shambolic >>chaos". > So business as usual at BAA’s airports > –==++AJC++==– >Why pick on BAA? Edinburgh, my local BAA airportm may be busy but >I’ve never seen it "shambolic". There have always been check-in staff >when they’ve been needed, in my experience. Isn’t this more likely to >be a London, or a Heathrow, or a British Airways problem, than a >problem with BAA airports?
This particular problem may have been down to BA, but Heathrow could be described as shambolic chaos whichever airline you fly. Gatwick is little better, some would say worse. As for EDI, it was my local airport for 5 years, I used it a lot, and it was delightful. Easy to use, light, airy, view of the planes from the cafe/bar, observation deck upstairs. When I returned after an absence of a few years I was appalled at what BAA have done to the place. The public areas are entirely closed in, the observation deck has gone, from the disgusting eating area you get a view of the car park, car rental has been moved just far enough away so that you need to take a shuttle bus (even LGW doesn’t require that). –==++AJC++==–
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> When I returned after an absence of a few years I was > appalled at what BAA have done to [EDI]. The public areas are > entirely closed in, the observation deck has gone, from the disgusting > eating area you get a view of the car park, car rental has been moved > just far enough away so that you need to take a shuttle bus (even LGW > doesn’t require that).
Fair enough. I never buy food or drink at airports, or rent cars for that matter, and whenever I’m there I’m aiming to get on planes rather than watch them, so all this would have passed me by — — Chris.
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>>Andrew Williams, who stayed in overnight accommodation on Monday night after >his flight was cancelled, described the scene at Heathrow as "shambolic >chaos". > So business as usual at BAA’s airports > –==++AJC++==–
Why pick on BAA? Edinburgh, my local BAA airportm may be busy but I’ve never seen it "shambolic". There have always been check-in staff when they’ve been needed, in my experience. Isn’t this more likely to be a London, or a Heathrow, or a British Airways problem, than a problem with BAA airports? — — Chris.
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>Andrew Williams, who stayed in overnight accommodation on Monday night after >his flight was cancelled, described the scene at Heathrow as "shambolic >chaos".
So business as usual at BAA’s airports –==++AJC++==–
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Flights cancelled by BA shortage BA passengers face a second day of delays after staff shortages and technical problems forced the airline to cancel 25 flights at Heathrow. Twenty-two short-haul flights were cancelled on Monday when BA failed to open check-in desks due to a lack of staff. Ten were called off on Tuesday. BA, which has just averted one strike, said it is currently recruiting 60 more check-in staff. Customers reported chaotic scenes and some slept at the airport overnight. I would say it was a shambolic chaos with no-one giving any information out – they just say delayed and cancelled Andrew Williams Three US-bound flights were the first to be cancelled after technical faults. The disruption worsened BA’s current staff shortages, leading to the cancellation of flights from Heathrow to a number of European airports, as well as arrivals from those destinations. Andrew Williams, who stayed in overnight accommodation on Monday night after his flight was cancelled, described the scene at Heathrow as "shambolic chaos". He told Radio Five Live: "Some people were shunted off to try and book extra tickets to find the ticket office all shut up with no luggage and nowhere to go. "They’ve been asked to phone a ticket hotline and that doesn’t open until 6am." The customer service desk was "six or seven deep" and police had to be called because some passengers were "losing their cool," he added. Overnight accommodation British Airways said it was making arrangements to put the short-haul passengers on alternative flights. Some were accommodated on later flights, some were provided with overnight hotel accommodation and seats on flights on Tuesday, while others simply had to rebook. This is a time when BA should be making a mint Simon Calder Travel editor The Independent Simon Calder, travel editor of the Independent newspaper, said the situation would "have to get worse before it can get better." The company’s management would try to resolve it by offering "very large inducements" to staff to work overtime, he told BBC Breakfast. "This is a time when BA should be making a mint. "Instead, it’s having to pay a fortune to put people up in hotels and it’s losing customers because the flights which were cancelled yesterday, most of them were due to come back in this morning." ‘Busiest period’ A BA spokeswoman apologised to customers affected by Monday’s disruption. "Due to a number of operational reasons we have cancelled 25 flights and some services have been delayed", she said. "August is the busiest period of the year for British Airways and services at Heathrow are stretched. "We have also had some technical problems with our aircraft and these combined has resulted in the cancellations," she added. However, it was having more trouble arranging alternatives for the long-haul passengers whose flights were cancelled. Ten flights scheduled for Tuesday were also cancelled. Strike averted The three trans-Atlantic flights cancelled were to Chicago, New York and Philadelphia. Passengers flying into the airport on Monday night also had long waits on the tarmac, before being allowed to disembark. At the weekend, the airline struck a pay deal with the union representing check-in staff and baggage handlers, narrowly averting an August Bank Holiday strike. The deal was struck in the early hours of Saturday after days of negotiation. The airline agreed an 8.5% pay increase over three years as well as