Hotels FAQ

Question:

We have been told it is not safe to be on the streets even in daytime in Johannesburg.  Is this true & why.  Thanks

Response:

Downtown? Not much there of interest to a tourist. And do not be there after dark. Suburbs are quite safe, though the obvious security may unsettle you – armed response cars, fences around homes, etc. The bigger issue is: why spend time in Johannesburg at all?

Response:

Hi Brenda Patterson has a point but I guess that you have reasons to be in Joburg. I have been there on three occations and I have not run into much problem. I had an incident with a man trying to run away with my VISA card but that’s about it. Most of the time I spent time in the Sandton area and we just drove in Joburd downtown. I have posted some pictures and travelogues on my homepage. Feel free to visit the page on http://donar.netpower.no/~ghk/ if you want an advice from me I would recommend going to Cape Town. It is a beautifyl city — Regards Gard

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We have been told it is not safe to be on the streets even in daytime in > Johannesburg.  Is this true & why.  Thanks

Response:

There are so very many wonderful places to go and see in South Africa I can’t imagine anyone wanting to be in just another big, impersonal city where the crime rate is higher than say Toronto Canada or Seattle Washington USA.  There are a lot of very poor people living or maybe it would be closer to the truth to say existing there and property crime is higher. Cape Town is a great city with a higher safety factor. Durban is on the coast and nice and warm this time of year with tons of things  to do and see. Nelspruit is not too far from Kruger National Park and a lovely spot to visit with friendly folks. Cedarberg has a wonderful wildlife reserve and is historically awesome – there are over 125 San People wall paintings to see. I have got to agree with everyone else.  Why go there?

Response:

>Downtown? Not much there of interest to a tourist. >And do not be there after dark. >Suburbs are quite safe, though the obvious security >may unsettle you – armed response cars, fences around >homes, etc. The bigger issue is: why spend time in >Johannesburg at all?

BUSINESS. Not all travellers to Africa are comming here to visit parks or white water river rafting. Marc – Johannesburg, South Africa

Response:

>>Downtown? Not much there of interest to a tourist. >And do not be there after dark. >Suburbs are quite safe, though the obvious security >may unsettle you – armed response cars, fences around >homes, etc. The bigger issue is: why spend time in >Johannesburg at all? >BUSINESS. Not all travellers to Africa are comming here to visit parks >or white water river rafting. >Marc – Johannesburg, South Africa

On top of that, there are attradtions like the lion park, Pilanesburg, etc. in the area, which is why I am heading there tonight.  Besides, SAA hasn’t started their non-stop New York to Knysna flight yet.  I think it’s only seasonal and it’s now the low season.

Response:

>> Downtown? Not much there of interest to a tourist. > And do not be there after dark. > Suburbs are quite safe, though the obvious security > may unsettle you – armed response cars, fences around > homes, etc. The bigger issue is: why spend time in > Johannesburg at all? > BUSINESS. Not all travellers to Africa are comming here to visit parks > or white water river rafting. > Marc – Johannesburg, South Africa

It can also be interesting in its own right, if you want to get a bit of a picture of how some 10MM people (or around a quarter of South Africa) live. I likened it to having a dull toothache…the safety factor is not constantly in your face but you know it’s there and is always on your mind. It was an invaluable few days of my own very limited S.Afr. experience – not one I would go out of my way to repeat, but glad I had that eye-opener.

Response:

I’ve been to SA several times in the last three or so years, and have found after dark wanderings very unsafe even in Sandton and Parktown, Hillbrow is a definitely a No-No even during the day. othwewise it’s great! Many historical places including Soweto to visit. Best Hotels are in Sandton in my view. Don’t forget to go to Swaziland when there! Pics of  Swaziland and more on www.newshhoundmedia.com Cheers and happy travelling mike

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We have been told it is not safe to be on the streets even in daytime in > Johannesburg.  Is this true & why.  Thanks

Response:

Yes, it is true.  The causes for the criminality in South Africa is complex. There are however better places to be in South Africa than Johannesburg.  Maybe you can have a look at our site at http://www.cybertonature.co.za/sitemap.html for safety tips and other options. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > We have been told it is not safe to be on the streets even in daytime in > Johannesburg.  Is this true & why.  Thanks

  info.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

Dries, Do me a favour, and stop peddling your garbage on this newsgroup. People here want, and need, responsible, solid advice and ask questions because they seek answers that are truthful and knowlegable. Your recent postings do nothing useful to inform about any aspect of rec.travel.africa, and I suggest you reserve most of them for other outlets who appreciate blatant advertising. Regards, Marc – Johhannesurg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Yes, it is true.  The causes for the criminality in South Africa is >complex. There are however better places to be in South Africa than >Johannesburg.  Maybe you can have a look at our site at >http://www.cybertonature.co.za/sitemap.html for safety tips and other >options. > We have been told it is not safe to be on the streets even in daytime in > Johannesburg.  Is this true & why.  Thanks >Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; > name="info.vcf" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Description: Card for Dries >Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="info.vcf" >begin:vcard >n:Velthuizen;Dries >tel;cell:+27826844359 >tel;work:012 5673279 (after hours) >x-mozilla-html:FALSE >url:http://www.cybertonature.co.za >org:Cybertonature Travel Services;General Manager >version:2.1 >note:Dries Velthuizen is a strategic knowledge manager and part-time general manager/owner of Cybertonature Travel Services CC >adr;quoted-printable:;;Wonderboom=0D=0APretoria=0D=0AGauteng=0D=0ASouth Africa;;;; >end:vcard

Response:

>Dries, >Do me a favour, and stop peddling your garbage on this newsgroup. >People here want, and need, responsible, solid advice and ask >questions because they seek answers that are truthful and knowlegable. >Your recent postings do nothing useful to inform about any aspect of >rec.travel.africa, and I suggest you reserve most of them for other >outlets who appreciate blatant advertising. >Regards, >Marc – Johhannesurg

snip Agreed. Not so long ago someone in the UK (I can’t remember the name) made a remark about South Africans advertising here. I replied (gently I hope) to the effect that we’re not all like that – only to be embarrased time and time again since then by blatant advertising in this (and another travel-related) newsgroup by, yes you guessed it – our fellow South Africans. Quite a few in fact. Perhaps they don’t realise that this isn’t a free classified column but a newsgroup. These "advertising executives" should read up on the internet about something called netiquette (pardon my spelling if that’s wrong) and stop embarrasing South Africa. My apologies as an South African to others on this ng, and at the risk of being embarrased yet again, we aren’t all like that. A few of us South Africans have in fact been been making genuine contributions here and will continue to do so. Anyway Marc, you’re probably English-speaking but knowing the attitudes sometimes involved (I’ve been flamed for being honest in some other newsgroups long ago so I know) I can only say HKGK in Afrikaans. Perhaps you’ll know what it stands for :>)) More or less to do with bad-smelling stuff and a fan. To Lindsay who asked: "We have been told it is not safe to be on the streets even in daytime in Johannesburg.  Is this true & why.  Thanks"   I’d like to say that although crime in South Africa is higher than in some other countries, what she’s enquiring about is rather an overstatement by whoever told her so. Yes, you might get mugged. In Johannesburg. Or Cape Town. Or New York where the word "mugged" is quite familiar I believe. Or London. Or Berlin. Or Tokyo. Or wherever. Except perhaps Antarctica. Dries from Wonderboom (the guy Marc is chastising) did say one thing I must agree with – the causes are indeed complex. About the "places better than Johannesburg" remark I’d like to disagree. Joburg, just like Pretoria where Dries from Wonderboom stays, has a large number of museums to use just one type of tourism attraction as an example. The Joburg Zoo, just like the one in Pretoria, is a haven of tranquility in the midst of a busy and bustling city. The stock exchange in Diagonal Street Johannesburg has a visitors gallery and I doubt if the stockbrokers feel unsafe in the streets. Even Soweto near Johannesburg is popular amongst overseas tourists for places like the Hector Pieterson museum and other places involved in the struggle against apartheid. And Soweto is one place you’d rather not go on your own because there a) crime is in fact high and b) you’ll get horribly lost in the maze of shanties. Use a tour operator familiar with the area. Joburg is also the city through which the most visitors enter South Africa. Pity we can’t conduct a poll at the airport as they go back, I’d like to know their comments! BTW in case anybody’s wondering, "Wonderboom" mentioned above ("Tree of Wonder" very roughly translated) is a suburb in Pretoria named after a huge "ficus pretoriae" wild fig tree found there. Actually a "serial" tree for lack of a better word. Where the branches are bent down from their weight they touch the ground and spread more roots. My apologies for a  very long post. Putting on my flame-resistant clothing as I say cheers for now. Danie Palm – South Africa Disability is not inability but a challenge

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dries, >Do me a favour, and stop peddling your garbage on this newsgroup. >People here want, and need, responsible, solid advice and ask >questions because they seek answers that are truthful and knowlegable. >Your recent postings do nothing useful to inform about any aspect of >rec.travel.africa, and I suggest you reserve most of them for other >outlets who appreciate blatant advertising. >Regards, >Marc – Johhannesurg >snip >Agreed. >Not so long ago someone in the UK (I can’t remember the name) made a remark >about South Africans advertising here. >I replied (gently I hope) to the effect that we’re not all like that – only >to be embarrased time and time again since then by blatant advertising in >this (and another travel-related) newsgroup by, yes you guessed it – our >fellow South Africans. Quite a few in fact.

snip >Putting on my flame-resistant clothing as I say cheers for now. >Danie Palm – South Africa >Disability is not inability but a challenge

BTW Dries and some of the others advertising on this ng, here’s something I forgot to mention in my previous post: As far as I know this is NOT a binary newsgroup. Meaning that as far as I understand only newsgroups with the word "binary" or something similar in the ng name are intended  to have messages with attachments posted to them. My newsreader is set to automatically retrieve all posts to this ng and this means I automatically get *unwanted* attachments. As a result this thread has dumped copies of your info.vcf attachment on my harddrive and I don’t like stuff being forced on me in a non-binary newsgroup. In addition similar posts on za.travel has done the same. Depending on their newsreader settings many people might not even realise that they’re getting unsolicited (albeit harmless) files transferred to their PC’s if they read your posts. Depending on the reactions to my posts on this thread I’ll either have to select messages individually for retrieval or set a filter to exclude certain posts. Either way it’s an unneccesary step being forced on me which I and other netsavvy ng readers will find irritating. Danie Palm – South Africa Disability is not inability but a challenge

Response:

OK, perhaps the word "Garbage" is a bit loaded and unnecesary, I was just reacting to the many postings made by Dries which were unashamed attempts at advertising. What is definitely "garbage" is the asertion by Dries that Johannesburg is not safe, even during the day. Sure, it’s not the safest city in the world, but it’s certainly safe enough to visit or to live in. Marc – Johannesburg. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dries, >Do me a favour, and stop peddling your garbage on this newsgroup. >People here want, and need, responsible, solid advice and ask >questions because they seek answers that are truthful and knowlegable. >Your recent postings do nothing useful to inform about any aspect of >rec.travel.africa, and I suggest you reserve most of them for other >outlets who appreciate blatant advertising. >Regards, >Marc – Johhannesurg >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Yes, it is true.  The causes for the criminality in South Africa is >complex. There are however better places to be in South Africa than >Johannesburg.  Maybe you can have a look at our site at >http://www.cybertonature.co.za/sitemap.html for safety tips and other >options. >> We have been told it is not safe to be on the streets even in daytime in >> Johannesburg.  Is this true & why.  Thanks >Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; > name="info.vcf" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Description: Card for Dries >Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="info.vcf" >begin:vcard >n:Velthuizen;Dries >tel;cell:+27826844359 >tel;work:012 5673279 (after hours) >x-mozilla-html:FALSE >url:http://www.cybertonature.co.za >org:Cybertonature Travel Services;General Manager >version:2.1 >note:Dries Velthuizen is a strategic knowledge manager and part-time general manager/owner of Cybertonature Travel Services CC >adr;quoted-printable:;;Wonderboom=0D=0APretoria=0D=0AGauteng=0D=0ASouth Africa;;;; >end:vcard

Response:

Danie, I’m well aware of what HKGK means I checked out Dries’ website, and I see that his wife has 18 years of military experience. Without pre-judging the Velthuizens, but having spent two years as an involuntary guest of the South African Defence Force, I think I understand where they come from, in a socio-political sense. Comments about Johannesburg being unsafe at all times, and suggestions to avoid it at all costs should be taken from whence they come. Asbestos flame-proof clothing has been ordered…   Marc – Johannesburg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Anyway Marc, you’re probably English-speaking but knowing the attitudes >sometimes involved (I’ve been flamed for being honest in some other >newsgroups long ago so I know) I can only say HKGK in Afrikaans.

Response:

> BTW Dries and some of the others advertising on this ng, here’s something I > forgot to mention in my previous post: > As far as I know this is NOT a binary newsgroup. Meaning that as far as I > understand only newsgroups with the word "binary" or something similar in > the ng name are intended  to have messages with attachments posted to them.

Despite the fact that Dries has been spamming the group for years, he hasn’t learned how to send an email without heaps of ‘garbage’ coming through, or how to send one without attachments. I have him killfiled. Liz — Virtual Liz at http://www.v-liz.co.uk Safaris (Kenya and Tanzania); NEW: Kenya 2002 ‘rushes’ now up "I speak of Africa and golden joys"

Response:

>Danie, >I’m well aware of what HKGK means

Lekker my broer :>) he he he snip >Asbestos flame-proof clothing has been ordered…   >Marc – Johannesburg

snip I have a suspicion that these people don’t even read the messages here. It’s far too quiet on the frontlines at the moment and my asbestos suit is hot and sweaty! Cheers, Danie. Danie Palm – South Africa Disability is not inability but a challenge

Response:

>Despite the fact that Dries has been spamming the group for years, he hasn’t >learned how to send an email without heaps of ‘garbage’ coming through, or >how to send one without attachments. >I have him killfiled. >:-) >Liz

I’m itching to do that but neither can I resist a good fight so I’ll wait a little while! Cheers, Danie. Danie Palm – South Africa Disability is not inability but a challenge

Response:

I am going to be staying there for a ciuple of nights during my overland tour. The other posting don’t seem to say whether or not there are specific areas to avoid. I know all cities have them, including mine, I would just like to be fore warned. Also can you recommend any hotels for a couple of nights that do not require advance notice?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> OK, perhaps the word "Garbage" is a bit loaded and unnecesary, I was > just reacting to the many postings made by Dries which were unashamed > attempts at advertising. > What is definitely "garbage" is the asertion by Dries that > Johannesburg is not safe, even during the day. Sure, it’s not the > safest city in the world, but it’s certainly safe enough to visit or > to live in. > Marc – Johannesburg. >Dries, >Do me a favour, and stop peddling your garbage on this newsgroup. >People here want, and need, responsible, solid advice and ask >questions because they seek answers that are truthful and knowlegable. >Your recent postings do nothing useful to inform about any aspect of >rec.travel.africa, and I suggest you reserve most of them for other >outlets who appreciate blatant advertising. >Regards, >Marc – Johhannesurg >>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Yes, it is true.  The causes for the criminality in South Africa is >>complex. There are however better places to be in South Africa than >>Johannesburg.  Maybe you can have a look at our site at >>http://www.cybertonature.co.za/sitemap.html for safety tips and other >>options. >>> We have been told it is not safe to be on the streets even in daytime in >>> Johannesburg.  Is this true & why.  Thanks >>Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; >> name="info.vcf" >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Content-Description: Card for Dries >>Content-Disposition: attachment; >> filename="info.vcf" >>begin:vcard >>n:Velthuizen;Dries >>tel;cell:+27826844359 >>tel;work:012 5673279 (after hours) >>x-mozilla-html:FALSE >>url:http://www.cybertonature.co.za >>org:Cybertonature Travel Services;General Manager >>version:2.1 >>note:Dries Velthuizen is a strategic knowledge manager and part-time

general manager/owner of Cybertonature Travel Services CC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>adr;quoted-printable:;;Wonderboom=0D=0APretoria=0D=0AGauteng=0D=0ASouth Africa;;;; >>end:vcard

Response:

>I am going to be staying there for a ciuple of nights during my overland >tour. The other posting don’t seem to say whether or not there are specific >areas to avoid. I know all cities have them, including mine, I would just >like to be fore warned. >Also can you recommend any hotels for a couple of nights that do not require >advance notice?

snip As you said, every city or town has places to avoid. Which doesn’t mean that the entire city or town has to be avoided as was suggested in some previous posts. As far as Joburg is concerned my penny’s worth would be to stay away from Hillbrow, it has become very run down. Perhaps Marc, being a resident of Johannesburg, would be able to give you some more pointers, it’s been a while since I lived there. Danie Palm – South Africa Disability is not inability but a challenge

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am going to be staying there for a ciuple of nights during my overland > tour. The other posting don’t seem to say whether or not there are specific > areas to avoid. I know all cities have them, including mine, I would just > like to be fore warned. > Also can you recommend any hotels for a couple of nights that do not require > advance notice? > snip > As you said, every city or town has places to avoid. > Which doesn’t mean that the entire city or town has to be avoided as was > suggested in some previous posts. > As far as Joburg is concerned my penny’s worth would be to stay away from > Hillbrow, it has become very run down. > Perhaps Marc, being a resident of Johannesburg, would be able to give you > some more pointers, it’s been a while since I lived there.

Agreed on Hillbrow.  I also understand the "areas" can shift from time to time and what’s OK one year can be "not on" the next.  I hate to say it, but colour also plays a role.  Some areas are OK by day, others not.  Some if you’re white, others if your black, yet others for any race and some for no race.  Ironic, but true. One of my most vivid memories of S. Afr. was arriving at the Rotunda station at dawn after crossing down from Zim.  A friend and her fiance picked me up – he’s ex-SAPS and a big boy who could very obviously take care of himself. I collapsed, half-asleep, in their car and the next thing I saw was a hand slamming the lock in front of my head and rolling up the window.  And then the gentlest tap on the shoulder, reminding me "you’re not in Nova Scotia, we do things a bit differently here."  Then they scooted like hell to get out of downtown before it hit the fan. AS with most parts of the world, seek and heed local advice.

Response:

snip >Agreed on Hillbrow.  I also understand the "areas" can shift from time to >time and what’s OK one year can be "not on" the next.  I hate to say it, but >colour also plays a role.  

On the one hand it’s rather funny, on the other hand rather tragic, how you’ll see comments like "Advisable to go in groups" or "Don’t go on your own, you’ll get lost" on brochures and websites when they talk about tourism attractions in certain areas. Actually the "areas that can shift" you’re talking about above don’t "shift" but expand. snip >AS with most parts of the world, seek and heed local advice.

Now there’s some good advice. I’ll be using that a lot in future! Danie Palm – South Africa Disability is not inability but a challenge

Response:

Originally posted by Lindsay Brinkme: > We have been told it is not safe to be on the streets even in daytime > in > Johannesburg. Is this true & why. Thanks

I grew up in South Africa and have been to Joburg many times.  Much of my family still lives there. There are crime problems but nothing that would prevent me from being in public places in the daytime.  I take the usual precautions when travelling – no visible valuables, keep money concealed, give it away if someone demands it in a threatening way, leave passport at the hotel – and I would never walk at night. Other than that, Joburg has many wonderful places to visit.  Its the biggest city in South africa.  Down the far end of Diagonal STreet, downtown, there is a distric of witchdoctors and fabric shops where you can get wonderful kikoi’s and sarongs imported from all over africa. Also, the street markets advertised in the paper are wonderful – masks and textiles and boerewors Enjoy, with caution. Shannon — Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

I’ve been reading these postings with great interest. I have a somewhat different perspective to offer, as I am an American who stayed in Johannesburg for 2 weeks visiting a friend. I’m sorry I cannot be precise now about areas of town, because it’s been since January of 2000 that I was there. However, my friend was a life-long resident, and as I was shown around she told me many of the same things I see posted here….areas that are more crime-prone, not to be out at night alone, ect. In fact, she and I compared the situations of her town and mine, and found no real differences. The important thing to keep in mind, in my opinion, is to obey the laws of common sense. Use the same safety precautions abroad you’d use anytime you’re in an unfamiliar place, and always make safety your priority. I managed to have a wonderful experience in both Johannesburg and Capetown while I was there, and will forever have fond memories. Randy "Every new beginning comes from some other beginning’s end." Semisonic

Response:

> snip > Agreed on Hillbrow.  I also understand the "areas" can shift from time to > time and what’s OK one year can be "not on" the next.  I hate to say it, but > colour also plays a role. > On the one hand it’s rather funny, on the other hand rather tragic, how > you’ll see comments like "Advisable to go in groups" or "Don’t go on your > own, you’ll get lost" on brochures and websites when they talk about > tourism attractions in certain areas.

One hostel advertised "we’ll pick you up, seven minutes from JNB airport unless our car has been stolen!"

Response:

> I’ve been reading these postings with great interest. I have a somewhat > different perspective to offer, as I am an American who stayed in > Johannesburg for 2 weeks visiting a friend.

[snip] > In fact, she and I compared the situations of her town and mine, and > found no real differences. The important thing to keep in mind, in my > opinion, is to obey the laws of common sense. Use the same safety > precautions abroad you’d use anytime you’re in an unfamiliar place, and > always make safety your priority.

[snip] Yes – I’m getting the same sort of advice about my approaching mini-break in NYC, and I’m sure lots of US citizens would laugh at what I’m hearing. Liz — Virtual Liz at http://www.v-liz.co.uk Safaris (Kenya and Tanzania); NEW: Kenya 2002 ‘rushes’ now up "I speak of Africa and golden joys"

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